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CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:19 pm
by RUPD3658
Can bad weather cause at carrier TF to not fly CAP?
Also, when you get a message saying tha air missions at such and such base cancelled due to bad weather, does that include CAP?
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:21 pm
by Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:22 pm
by RUPD3658
Damn it!
Damn it!
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:17 am
by herwin
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
Given that air missions being cancelled at a base does not cancel air missions against that base, is the same true for CV ops? (Note this gets reality backwards, particularly for CAP.)
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:20 pm
by rominet
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
It is a joke, isn't it?[&:]
CAP always are, LRCAP too.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:51 pm
by FeurerKrieg
I've seen CAP canceled due to bad weather before.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:14 pm
by herwin
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
I've seen CAP canceled due to bad weather before.
HISTORICAL and OPERATIONAL comment.
The last thing that should be cancelled is CAP. If the base is socked in, WWII attackers won't find it. If the ceiling is low, fighters can still launch.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:33 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: herwin
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
I've seen CAP canceled due to bad weather before.
HISTORICAL and OPERATIONAL comment.
The last thing that should be cancelled is CAP. If the base is socked in, WWII attackers won't find it. If the ceiling is low, fighters can still launch.
Which begs the point. If the base is socked in should the defenders need to put up CAP at all?
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:36 pm
by Q-Ball
Right, that is the BIG question, particularly on CV CAP:
If weather shuts down the CAP, will it also shut down attackers?
I have no problem with weather grouding all aircraft, as long as it grounds ALL aircraft.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:06 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
the answers is:
NO
NO
at least in WITP, don´t know about AE. Cap isn´t effected by bad weather and incoming strikes are also not effected by bad weather over the base they target. Only outgoing strikes are cancelled. Also your aircraft on nav search fly. Don´t know if Mr. Yamato hugger has been playing a different WITP than me the last five thousand turns though.
Have seen it a hundred times that bases that had a cloud above them been attacked by bombers or fighter sweeps and while the base didn´t launch a strike, it had the usual Cap above the base - which then leads to the screaming: "why the hell can the enemy find my base when the weather is so bad that my strike doesn´t launch?". Same goes for CVs, have seen it (only a couple of times though) that CVs were attacked when having a cloud above them, not sending a strike out themselve. Cap was flying nevertheless...
as Mogami tended to say: "if you have set a Cap and it doesn´t fly at all, then it´s a bug and rerunning the turn solves it".
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:36 pm
by rominet
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
the answers is:
NO
NO
at least in WITP, don´t know about AE. Cap isn´t effected by bad weather and incoming strikes are also not effected by bad weather over the base they target. Only outgoing strikes are cancelled. Also your aircraft on nav search fly. Don´t know if Mr. Yamato hugger has been playing a different WITP than me the last five thousand turns though.
Have seen it a hundred times that bases that had a cloud above them been attacked by bombers or fighter sweeps and while the base didn´t launch a strike, it had the usual Cap above the base - which then leads to the screaming: "why the hell can the enemy find my base when the weather is so bad that my strike doesn´t launch?". Same goes for CVs, have seen it (only a couple of times though) that CVs were attacked when having a cloud above them, not sending a strike out themselve. Cap was flying nevertheless...
as Mogami tended to say: "if you have set a Cap and it doesn´t fly at all, then it´s a bug and rerunning the turn solves it".
I agree but just a small correction:
"incoming strikes can not be effected by bad weather over the base they target"
first, incomming strikes can miss the target if there is bad weather above target
second, it seems that strikes are not so effective in this case
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:09 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: rominet
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Yes
Yes
the answers is:
NO
NO
at least in WITP, don´t know about AE. Cap isn´t effected by bad weather and incoming strikes are also not effected by bad weather over the base they target. Only outgoing strikes are cancelled. Also your aircraft on nav search fly. Don´t know if Mr. Yamato hugger has been playing a different WITP than me the last five thousand turns though.
Have seen it a hundred times that bases that had a cloud above them been attacked by bombers or fighter sweeps and while the base didn´t launch a strike, it had the usual Cap above the base - which then leads to the screaming: "why the hell can the enemy find my base when the weather is so bad that my strike doesn´t launch?". Same goes for CVs, have seen it (only a couple of times though) that CVs were attacked when having a cloud above them, not sending a strike out themselve. Cap was flying nevertheless...
as Mogami tended to say: "if you have set a Cap and it doesn´t fly at all, then it´s a bug and rerunning the turn solves it".
I agree but just a small correction:
"incoming strikes can not be effected by bad weather over the base they target"
first, incomming strikes can miss the target if there is bad weather above target
second, it seems that strikes are not so effective in this case
yes that´s correct, I wasn´t precise enough. They can miss the target, but that can also happen without a cloud over the base and I have yet to see it happen more often if there´s a cloud over the base. I see often enough the weather during the actual attack being only "overcast" so having a cloud over the base (that prevents your strikes) doesn´t even mean the incoming strike really gets bad weather during the attack.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:12 pm
by Yamato hugger
Weather will shut down CAP in WitP. I have seen many many raids come in when weather shut down a base and the attackers still flew.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:42 pm
by herwin
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: herwin
ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
I've seen CAP canceled due to bad weather before.
HISTORICAL and OPERATIONAL comment.
The last thing that should be cancelled is CAP. If the base is socked in, WWII attackers won't find it. If the ceiling is low, fighters can still launch.
Which begs the point. If the base is socked in should the defenders need to put up CAP at all?
No, but the game engine currently allows air strikes on socked-in bases. They're devastating.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:23 pm
by tocaff
If you can't fly a Cap due to lousy weather, it would stand to reason that your enemy wouldn't be able to see your base. If your enemy is flying on radio beacons and has no visual then I would expect the attack to be so inaccurate that virtually no damage is dished out. OK, OK maybe a dead cow or 2 in a nearby field.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:57 pm
by Yamato hugger
ORIGINAL: tocaff
If you can't fly a Cap due to lousy weather, it would stand to reason that your enemy wouldn't be able to see your base. If your enemy is flying on radio beacons and has no visual then I would expect the attack to be so inaccurate that virtually no damage is dished out. OK, OK maybe a dead cow or 2 in a nearby field.
That isnt necessarily true. A break in the clouds, field too muddy to take off even under pristine skys, high ground winds, ect. Lots of real world explanations on why the other guy can bomb you while you cant take off.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:31 pm
by tocaff
Muddy field, yes.
Break in the clouds at just the time a strike is arriving in the area is the worst of luck. A socked in target is skipped and the secondary one is unlucky.
High winds, maybe and again the worst of luck.
I'm not saying anything is impossible, just not real likely to have it happen more than very rarely.
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:23 pm
by Japan
ORIGINAL: RUPD3658
Can bad weather cause at carrier TF to not fly CAP?
Also, when you get a message saying tha air missions at such and such base cancelled due to bad weather, does that include CAP?
I lost 6 CV's due to it. I had my CAP up, but mine did not strike.. (and yes they were proparlly configed and set).. Its a year ago now, (was back in 1943) ... but indeed, my Doctrine has since back then been to never go to Allutions with CV's Ever aigan... to bad weather...
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:59 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Weather will shut down CAP in WitP. I have seen many many raids come in when weather shut down a base and the attackers still flew.
that´s when I say that we both have different versions WITP. Probably the US and European one...
in a couple of thousand turns I´ve never seen this and I have seen it hundreds of times that one side attacked the other side´s base that was clouded and the Cap flew just fine. I have seen Cap not flying though and go with what Mogami said several times: "If you have set your Cap and it doesn´t fly, then it´s a bug. Rerun the turn and everything is fine."
RE: CV Ops in bad weather question
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:29 am
by herwin
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Weather will shut down CAP in WitP. I have seen many many raids come in when weather shut down a base and the attackers still flew.
that´s when I say that we both have different versions WITP. Probably the US and European one...
in a couple of thousand turns I´ve never seen this and I have seen it hundreds of times that one side attacked the other side´s base that was clouded and the Cap flew just fine. I have seen Cap not flying though and go with what Mogami said several times: "If you have set your Cap and it doesn´t fly, then it´s a bug. Rerun the turn and everything is fine."
GAME
I've had it happen a couple of times in the current PBEM. We're in June 1943.