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Will there be any minor, random variation in the Jun 22 Soviet (or axis) setup each time you load the the game? Or will each unit always be in the same hex, at the same strength, each time you load the game?

There is variation in the morale/experience of the Soviet units, and I think also in their detection level (how much is known about each unit).

Some variation is also created by random Soviet defense AI reaction. Besides, random leader's roll can make first turns each time slightly different.

Helpless, you are one ugly dude.

fine, the answers above(and elsewhere) indicate this is all standard WIR behaviour...which is good: minor , random, varied Sov unit experience and AI reactions on Jun 22 with each reload, we know that spiel.
My point was should Axis always rely on the same assault plan once he "understands" the Sov setup, once and for all? In WIR this was par for the course on Turn 1.

Helpless, you are one ugly dude.

thanks [;)]

ORIGINAL: Endsieg

fine, the answers above(and elsewhere) indicate this is all standard WIR behaviour...which is good: minor , random, varied Sov unit experience and AI reactions on Jun 22 with each reload, we know that spiel.
My point was should Axis always rely on the same assault plan once he "understands" the Sov setup, once and for all? In WIR this was par for the course on Turn 1.

Well I am one that has spent a lot of time and game after game looking just at this angle (many of the other testers can vouch on that). Seeing what unit, or combination of units work best using which type of attack and in which order. I look at which commanders, which support units, and a number of other factors..like air support, that may be the best choice. I will run test after test to see what works best..there are cases where I have run a single sequence of attacks over a hundred times to get a set of stats on what to expect.

But despite all this, even knowing where and what type of enemy unit you may face, I have run into plenty of difficulties. There is a randomness in the outcome of a battle which include a number of factors..entrenchements, weather, leadership, morale..just to name a few. You can improve the chances of success thru a number of other factors (some of which I list above)..which believe me I am doing..but even with that, you will run into problems.

Enemy air support can drastically change the outcome of what appears to be an easy victory..at the very least change it into a phyrric one. So I have learned to try and flatten all the enemy bomber bases within range of my upcoming attacks..but that is pretty tough considering you won't be able to find them all (providing Fog of War is on).

The one thing that really throws a monkey wrench into all this is the reserve system. I don't care how well you plan your attacks..if enemy reserves activate in force to support a defense (these are random..based on many factors again), you could end up with a crushing defeat. I have seen reserves activate from 5 or more locations and you just wanna cry when one of your premier divisions just gets spanked really bad.

This game is not WiR..the enemy forces may start in the same spot each time..and a generalized strategy can be used, but if you try to go with a set piece battle using the same units every time, you'll be in for a big surprise. I have learned to keep several divisions as a ready reserve in the event the first attack fails, which inevitably several do.

Andy

IIRC the main German thrust was north of the marshes initially while the Soviets had the majority of their troops south of the marshes expecting the Germans to go for the Ukraine. From what I've read here, and correct me if I'm wrong, that is how the forces will be set up at the start of every campaign game.

What would be great, and not something I'd necessarily expect in the initial release, would be to allow the players to have some say in that initial troop positioning to explore other strategies such as a stronger German push to the southeast or a more balanced Soviet starting position. So maybe we need a "wish list" already? [:D]

thanks for the extensive reply, Sabre...obviously you're an aficionado of "the ultimate game"...best wishes you testers keep up the devotion into Beta as well....

ORIGINAL: elmo3

IIRC the main German thrust was north of the marshes initially while the Soviets had the majority of their troops south of the marshes expecting the Germans to go for the Ukraine. From what I've read here, and correct me if I'm wrong, that is how the forces will be set up at the start of every campaign game.

What would be great, and not something I'd necessarily expect in the initial release, would be to allow the players to have some say in that initial troop positioning to explore other strategies such as a stronger German push to the southeast or a more balanced Soviet starting position. So maybe we need a "wish list" already? [:D]

Well elmo

There will be a game editor as already mentioned in another thread, to what extent yet is to be determined, but I would be willing to bet that it would allow for the repositioning of forces allowing for countless scenario variations to be created.


Endsieg

I really wouldn't call myself an ultimate gamer, it's just that this particular game is one of those rare war games...like WitP, that will be on my computer until I probably croak..lol.

Andy