Matrix Games Forums

Questions to Rich Dionne on PWHints.

1. What are max patrol ranges for subs?
PWHints stated, that coastal class subs (RO,'S',K.XIV) won't attack ships, if patrol range is 20 or more.
The PWHints says:
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Coastal submarines (RO,'S',K.XIV classes) have their patrol range doubled
for the purpose of determining effectiveness.
Coastal subs have their patrol range multiplied x8.
Thus they will be unable to attack at all when patrolling greater than 19 hexes from their home base.
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1. Is this still true?
2. So, is it x2 or x8? Or do I misunderstand something?
3. And what is max patrol range for NORMAL (non-coastal) subs – Gato, T, I-15?
Is it 40 (20*2)? Or 160 (20*8)?


2. What plane types do you mean by T and TB? As in (PWHints):

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From the C&T: Air units on NI will not search or attack subs.
Japanese naval air units (TB, T, DB), patrol craft and American naval air (DB, T) will search and attack subs.
Fighters on both sides will not attack subs.....
Also: If you want IJN TB units to be effective ASW, make certain their experience factor is 70 and above.
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Does T mean Torpedo-bomber, TB – Tac Bomber? BTW – what's C&T?

Mark,

I don't think Rich wrote the RWHINTS manual, he is just making it available.

1. Subs, the S (US), KXVI (Dutch) & RO (Jap) subs are useless at 20 or more hexes distant from their base, so keep them in close. They're not much use at close range either.

The others, Gato (& other USN fleet subs), T (RN) & I (IJN) can all be set to patrol anywhere, but the further from the base, the "less effective" they are. I don't know what that means. The only real effect I see is the extended time to get "on station" when the patrol hex is further away.

TB is tactical bomber, T torpedo, DB Dive bomber. The only "naval tac bombers" are the IJN bettys and Nells. The USN (really the USMC) didn't really operate any tac bombers until late in the war when several USMC B-25 groups came on line. American naval air refers to the Marine air groups.

The long range patrol planes on both sides are the best for dealing with subs.

I have no idea what C&T is either. I don't think it means anything.

Who volunteers to re-write the PWHINTS manual???:p

Mark,

As Ranger-75 indicates, I didn't write the PWHINTS guide, so there are a number of things in it that I also don't understand. I think Ranger-75 answered as well as I could the limitations on sub patrols, and here is some more info you might find helpful on the limitations of aircraft used in ASW operations:

Only patrol aircraft, and USN, USMC, and IJN bombers of all types (dive, torpedo, tactical) search for subs. USAAF heavy bombers do not search for subs.

At any air base, it appears that "only one" patrol air group (PBY, etc.) plus "up to one additional" patrol capable bomber group will search for subs. These two searches are conducted independently and any damage is
inflicted separately. Any extra patrol capable air groups beyond the two listed above do not appear to search for enemy subs.

(That last one may explain our frustration with trying to send multiple search groups to one base. I looked into this a number of different ways, but the searching groups always seem to be limited to one patrol group plus one other bomber group.)

Patrol capable aircraft on training or naval interdiction missions do not search for subs.

The number of aircraft within the patrol air group plays a big role in determining if a sub is contacted and possibly in the determination of sub damage.

(Basically, big air groups do much better than small ones. I believe the formula given in the rule book for sub searches is probably correct.)

Only one sub in a pack can be damaged or sunk in each air group attack.

The experience of the patrol group does not appear to have any impact on the ability to find subs during the search phase.

The cannon and bomb factors on a patrol plane have no impact on potential damage to subs.

A patrol capable air group search radius extends out to 1/2 its listed Pacwar range factor (rounded down) when searching for submarines. (This rule severely limits shorter range aircraft.)

Regards,

Rich