Matrix Games Forums

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix

1. AGREE.

2. AGREE.

3. AGREE.

4. AGREE.

I think that if you factor in the cost of WITP vs the hours spent with it you'd be hard pressed to find anything that is a better bargain and I believe that it will be no different with AE.  How can anyone begrudge Matrix an opportunity to make money when they support their games for such an extended period of time and support further development (AE) for us?  Linking AE with WITP is alright with me, especially since I can continue my PBEMs with the one while delving into the other.

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WitP and WitP-AE are like really good bottles of Red Wine;

WitP is a full-bodied moderately priced game that does not appeal to everybody.

WitP-AE is a fuller-bodied moderately priced game that will not appeal to anybody who has not tried, and liked WitP first. [;)]

90% of all complaints boils down to 'I_want_AE_cheaper'.

Fortunately economy crisis didn't strike through yet on my leisure budget. So I don't really care what Matrix is going to charge for this game. I just want to lay my hands on it.

The cost per hour played for me in UV and WITP can be measured in cents per hour, and I have only played 3 of each. What else can you do for a few cents per hour except breath. Of course, I am not including all the books I purchased to learn about the PTO (I was an ETO and Russian Front centric guy) or the opportunity cost of reading the books and playing the games, but I digress...

I have spent untold hours enjoying WitP. After reading the Guadalcanal AAR, I downloaded N's Guadalcanal MOD and spent most of this morning playing the AI. This has been great value for my entertainment dollar. Thanks, Matrix. I'm looking forward to AE!

You know I laugh at those who complain about the cost of video games. Those are the same people who spend money at happy hour every evening. Or have their $4 coffee every morning.

I've been waiting my entire life for a game of this scope...I'll pay a little extra for a lifetime of waiting

I totally agree with this thread. WITP was not broken, but it could have been improved. That is what AE set out to do. I am sure it will accomplish that goal. WITP was the best computer war game going; AE should build on that. For that, I believe Matrix should be compensated.

WITP is a great game. I used to figure that a good cost benefit ratio for buying games was $1 per hour spent in play time and I am down to the nanocents per hour for WITP. I believe that WITP is required to run AE for one basic reason, in order that the original developers of WITP (Grigsby et al), continue to get compensated. I suspect they dont get a penny for AE.

ORIGINAL: skrewball

You know I laugh at those who complain about the cost of video games. Those are the same people who spend money at happy hour every evening. Or have their $4 coffee every morning.

I've been waiting my entire life for a game of this scope...I'll pay a little extra for a lifetime of waiting

In my own case, you're so dead wrong it's pathetic, so maybe your generalization is just as far off the mark.
Drink? - None at all; tee-totaler
Drink coffee? None at all; tee-totaler
Drink Dr Pepper? Yes, but would never pay more than $2 for a bottle.
I think it's a bit more likely that a fool and his money will soon part, so if you're unworried about finances in one area, you're unworried about them in all areas. Most people end up with a bit of a splurge in some small area, even if they are penny pinchers, it's just that gaming may not be one of those areas.

Charles, hasen't it gotten through your thick skull yet; people heard you the first time, and the 2nd, and 3d, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th? And that your desires will not be satisfied? So why are you hunting and trolling on other people who do not share your attitude?

Your take has been put down; put down by the management. But you seem to want to piss on anybody who has a different idea. Just what is your problem? Is it a bad monthly?

You said your piece - it was recognized and addressed (maybe not to your satisfaction, but that's life) - so shut the hell up and let other people express themselves without your bile.

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ORIGINAL: ckammp

I do not appreciate being referred to as a fool for desiring to purchase AE.[:-]

As a "mindless" member of the "glee club" I concur. [:(]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Charles, hasen't it gotten through your thick skull yet; people heard you the first time, and the 2nd, and 3d, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th? And that your desires will not be satisfied? So why are you hunting and trolling on other people who do not share your attitude?

Your take has been put down; put down by the management. But you seem to want to piss on anybody who has a different idea. Just what is your problem? Is it a bad monthly?

You said your piece - it was recognized and addressed (maybe not to your satisfaction, but that's life) - so shut the hell up and let other people express themselves without your bile.

Thank you for your concern.

Let him yap. If he doesn't have this place to let off steam, he might go out into the real world and hurt somebody. Just green-button him.

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

ORIGINAL: skrewball

You know I laugh at those who complain about the cost of video games. Those are the same people who spend money at happy hour every evening. Or have their $4 coffee every morning.

I've been waiting my entire life for a game of this scope...I'll pay a little extra for a lifetime of waiting

In my own case, you're so dead wrong it's pathetic, so maybe your generalization is just as far off the mark.
Drink? - None at all; tee-totaler
Drink coffee? None at all; tee-totaler
Drink Dr Pepper? Yes, but would never pay more than $2 for a bottle.
I think it's a bit more likely that a fool and his money will soon part, so if you're unworried about finances in one area, you're unworried about them in all areas. Most people end up with a bit of a splurge in some small area, even if they are penny pinchers, it's just that gaming may not be one of those areas.

I think you have made your point clear: You think WitP is "broken", and you're pissed about how much you paid for the game. You won't buy AE because of it's price.
Fair enough.
Those are valid concerns/complaints, and you certainly have a right to your opinion, and the right to express your opinion on this forum. In doing so, however, you seem to be taking things a little too far; you have no right to insult other members of this forum.
I do not appreciate being referred to as a fool for desiring to purchase AE.[:-]
You claim that Civ and SoSE are games you enjoy; why don't you go play them instead of being a troll on this forum.

And you started off so well too...
I was referring to a specific comment made as to having people who had problems with AE Pricing, being spendthrifts elsewhere, and it's inaccuracy, but just leave a crack for somebody to take a cheapshot and they will. Now you insult me, and a number of you have done the same.

Charles,

Insinuating that the rest of the forum consists of fools and that a poster is "pathetic" is not going to earn you any friends here. While JWE will once again need a reminder about his language, you need to realize that you really have made your point and making it repeatedly in multiple threads is also going to run you afoul of not only the community but also forum moderation. We have a pretty casual place here compared to some other forums, where this style of posting is explicitly prohibited. The reason it's often prohibited is that it does nothing but antagonize the rest of the forum, it's the internet version of picking a fight.

I regret that you didn't enjoy WITP, I hope that if you decide to get AE you will enjoy it, but seriously, just accept that everyone else knows that you had a problem with WITP by now. People who did enjoy WITP should be allowed to express that without being told that they're wrong for enjoying it or looking forward to AE. I'm not trying to tell you you should have enjoyed WITP, stop trying to do the reverse.

Regards,

- Erik

I see you have almost 4000 posts since joining the forums back in early 2001. Judging from the tone of your recent submissions you are a very unhappy camper. Why don't you find something else to do besides complaining here. This can't be your form of entertainment and if it is I, and I'm sure others would suggest you don't buy AE, stop posting on the WITP/AE board, and get a real life.