Matrix Games Forums

Does France still offer to become Vichy if all the VP's are captures. IE Paris and Metz? Is there another one I am missing? I have both under my control and still no surrender.

Thanks

From previous posts on same question ...


If it helps look at it this way, you need either.
Paris, Metz, Reims, Nantes and Tours
or
Paris, Metz, Reims, Nantes and Caens
or
Paris, Lille, Reims, Nantes and Tours
or
Paris, Lille, Reims, Nantes and Caens
or
Paris, Metz, Lille, Nantes and Tours
or
Paris, Metz, Lille, Nantes and Caens

so no matter what, Nantes had to fall before a surrender was offered it's the only thing common to all options apart from Paris.

A more succinct way of putting it would be,
Paris
and
Nantes
and
(Metz and Reims) or (Lille and Reims) or (Metz and Lille)
and
Tours or Caens

Ok I have Paris, Nantes, Riems, Metz, and Lille. Still no surrender or offer for Vichy?

That's because you are missing one of Tours or Caen.

In order to cause France to Surrender outright you need to capture every VP location they control, just like any other nation.  This includes all of the ones in Metropolitan France plus several in Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco as well as one in Syria, plus any they might control from another nation. (not too likely but possible.. I have seen a French controlled Copenhagen!)
 
In order to Vichify France you need the following
Paris
Nantes
Tours or Caen
Any two of
  Metz  Lille Reims
 
In my experience the most common Vichy combo is Paris Nantes Tours Metz and Lille.

Another question ... Say you have accepted the Vichy armastice with France. Then you declare war on Vichy. Does anyone know how that works out?

Grunt,
 
I have not actually done that, but unless there is a specific event you would need to capture evry VP site held by Vichy France in order to force a surrender.
 

You should not declare war on Vichy, read that, cannot. You can use diplomatic influence to bring it in as an Axis nation. It is, in effect a German puppet, and will be a nice ally once you bring it in, especially if the navy is intact.

Chuck

Thanks guys for all your help. Finally got it. Lost some time though. Still France conquered by April 1940 not too bad.

I really think all of this about France is to be reworked...
Historically the surrender was a sure thing when Germans took Paris, 1 week before the official surrender. But Paris was undefended, declared as "open city", and only Rouen was occupied amongst the other large cities, though the Germans approached Bordeaux (where the government took refuge) . Vichy was a totally unimportant town (and still is !), no need to take it should be imposed.
But Vichy regime was not really a German puppet, and ended by being invaded in 42, Vichy forces didn't fight the germans but the French fleet at Toulon was scuttled.

You can remove the following lines from events_02_germany.xml and France will surrender as soon as Paris is occupied:

<or>
<and>
<!--Metz controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="105" param1="98" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!--French resources controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="100" param1="95" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
</and>
<and>
<!--Lille controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="97" param1="91" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!--French resources controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="100" param1="95" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
</and>
<and>
<!--Metz controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="105" param1="98" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!--Lille controlled by Germany-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="97" param1="91" param2="2"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
</and>
</or>
<!--Nantes controlled by Axis-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByAliance" param0="78" param1="106" param2="2" />
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<or>
<!--Tours controlled by Axis-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByAliance" param0="88" param1="106" param2="2" />
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!--Caen controlled by Axis-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByAliance" param0="83" param1="97" param2="2" />
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
</or>

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

I really think all of this about France is to be reworked...
Historically the surrender was a sure thing when Germans took Paris, 1 week before the official surrender. But Paris was undefended, declared as "open city", and only Rouen was occupied amongst the other large cities, though the Germans approached Bordeaux (where the government took refuge) . Vichy was a totally unimportant town (and still is !), no need to take it should be imposed.
But Vichy regime was not really a German puppet, and ended by being invaded in 42, Vichy forces didn't fight the germans but the French fleet at Toulon was scuttled.

Err, not sure where you see you have to get Vichy itself. I don't know, I think it would be way too easy otherwise but as carnifex said, you can simply mod it yourself.

Sure, I can do it, but the idea of a discussion forum is to discuss&nbsp;[:'(]
My bad about Vichy. My suggestion would be to have as condition Paris +(Lille or Metz) + one of any other port. It's still complicated but less than now[:D]

Well, let's not be too sure here! As I read the accounts, it was not a given that the French would give up. They did consider fighting on from North Africa. It came down to personalities and idealogies, amongst the various men in government (and a couple of their mistresses!). So happened that the defeatists and Nazi wannabes won out.

The point being, in game terms, that declaration of Vichy should not be standardized.

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

Sure, I can do it, but the idea of a discussion forum is to discuss [:'(]
My bad about Vichy. My suggestion would be to have as condition Paris +(Lille or Metz) + one of any other port. It's still complicated but less than now[:D]

Fair enough! Didn't mean to sound like I was discounting your comment. Maybe it's a bit too complicated but limiting it to just Paris would be way too easy in my opinion. Maybe Paris, Le Havre and one other? Not sure.

Historically the whole French Army crumbled in 2 weeks, and only a small portion of officers (think De Gaulle) thought of continuing the fight. Even so the homeland would have been lost/occupied.
Also, one of the big trigger for surrendering was when the Germans took position in the Atlantic ports and attacked Bordeaux- which also was the new seat of government. Then the "homeland" was cut off from its overseas empire.
Also note that Paris was declared open city so the German took it without a fight. Difficult to simulate in game without breaking the balance.. So eventually I suggest to have Paris + Bordeaux occupied to trigger surrender.

And what about Marseilles ? Many high ranking French personnalities were poised to create a free French governement overseas, certainly in North Africa, in order to continue the fighting.

ORIGINAL: Gloo

And what about Marseilles ? Many high ranking French personnalities were poised to create a free French governement overseas, certainly in North Africa, in order to continue the fighting.

This means we could have some event to get a "stronger" Free France, France itself (ie homeland) will have surrender anyways. I don't think the Germans or Italians took Marseilles before surrender, but I can be wrong ...

No, the italians are still looking forward to spend holidays in Monaco since then [:D]