Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:39 am**

Okay, reason I ask this is because I'm trying to enter in the data for the F8B-1; I've used the P-47N as a stand in for manouverability and durability, since they both were HUGE aircraft.

But the range data is what's flummoxing me:

F8B-1
473 MPH at 26,900 ft
35,300 ft Service Ceiling
2800 fpm climb
6 x .50 Cal MGs with 400 rpg

196 mile radius of action at 162 MPH with no extra fuel
592 mile radius of action at 174 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank
978 mile radius of action at 171 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank and 2 x 150 gal DT

247 mile radius of action at 180 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally
455 mile radius of action at 178 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally, and 1 x 150 gal DT

200 mile radius of action at 173 MPH with 2 x Mk 13-3 Torpedoes under wings
598 mile radius of action at 172 MPH with 1 x Mk 13-3 Torpedo under the wing and 270 gal bomb bay tank

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:24 pm**

All range data is entered directly into the RNG & RNG *** DT fields rather than be a hardcoded function of endurance and cruise speed as in WitP. Endurance has no function in WitP:AE.

The editor automatically halves any input in the RNG EXT, RNG NORMAL, RNG EXT DT & RNG NORMAL DT fields, but not in the RNG MAX & RNG MAX DT fields. The DT fields are range w/ drop tanks. All ranges are in presumed to be in nautical miles 'cos this is the measurement used for the map, but the editor doesn't automatically adjust for this.

RNG MAX is the transfer ranges while the RNG EXT, NORMAL are the tactical ranges.

You get to pick one set of ranges without drop tanks and one set with drop tanks. Both can be with or without ordnance but there only one ordnance configuration available to cover both. So whatever configuration you pick as the non-DT configuration will also be used with DT's. However ordnance defined as "external" will swap for DT's similarly defined as "external". Ditto the "centre-line" ordnance define. Thus you can define two bombs as "external" and one as "centre-line" while defining two DT's as "external" and none as "centre-line". In this case the "external" bombs would be replaces with DT's as appropriate but the "centreline" bomb would remain in place, allowing the a/c to carry ordnance at DT ranges. There's no explicit provision in the code of bombbay tanks. To override the above and allow an a/c to carry a full suite of ordnance and DT's, tag the "DT ordnance" field.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

196 mile radius of action at 162 MPH with no extra fuel

Enter 392 (2x196) in the RNG NORMAL field (or RNG EXT if you think this number represents a reasonable maximum tactical range). If this was an "official" AE bird the RNG NORMAL would be 80% of RNG EXT, ie RNG EXT = 392/80x100 = 490. This makes the assumption that it'd possible to push the a/c somewhat further on the same fuel load but at greater risk. But you can enter whatever value you like in the range fields obviously.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

592 mile radius of action at 174 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank
978 mile radius of action at 171 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank and 2 x 150 gal DT

You'd have to pick one set of drop tank ranges to work from, but otherwise the procedure is the same as above.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

247 mile radius of action at 180 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally
455 mile radius of action at 178 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally, and 1 x 150 gal DT

200 mile radius of action at 173 MPH with 2 x Mk 13-3 Torpedoes under wings
598 mile radius of action at 172 MPH with 1 x Mk 13-3 Torpedo under the wing and 270 gal bomb bay tank

Here you have to decide whether you want the above to represent the non-DT range or the 198 miles figure given above and still have the 592/978 miles radius as the DT range. Can't have both unless you start making some different assumption about the relationship and meaning of the normal v extended range.

You also cannot have the TT's and the 1000lbs as alternate - the TT's a hardcoded to swap with 4x500lbs bombs IIRC.

I guessing you're more confused than even by now

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:37 pm**

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:52 pm**

Some questions:

Endurance has no function in WitP:AE.

So time in the air is not factored?

Enter 392 (2x196) in the RNG NORMAL field (or RNG EXT if you think this number represents a reasonable maximum tactical range). If this was an "official" AE bird the RNG NORMAL would be 80% of RNG EXT, ie RNG EXT = 392/80x100 = 490.

So this means that more range with half offensive load does not exists anymore unless with DT?

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:33 pm**

If I am not mistaken the extended range load is defined in slots 11-20.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:40 pm**

Correct.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:15 pm**

Thanks

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:11 pm**

ORIGINAL: timtom

All range data is entered directly into the RNG & RNG *** DT fields rather than be a hardcoded function of endurance and cruise speed as in WitP. Endurance has no function in WitP:AE.

The editor automatically halves any input in the RNG EXT, RNG NORMAL, RNG EXT DT & RNG NORMAL DT fields, but not in the RNG MAX & RNG MAX DT fields. The DT fields are range w/ drop tanks. All ranges are in presumed to be in nautical miles 'cos this is the measurement used for the map, but the editor doesn't automatically adjust for this.

RNG MAX is the transfer ranges while the RNG EXT, NORMAL are the tactical ranges.

You get to pick one set of ranges without drop tanks and one set with drop tanks. Both can be with or without ordnance but there only one ordnance configuration available to cover both. So whatever configuration you pick as the non-DT configuration will also be used with DT's. However ordnance defined as "external" will swap for DT's similarly defined as "external". Ditto the "centre-line" ordnance define. Thus you can define two bombs as "external" and one as "centre-line" while defining two DT's as "external" and none as "centre-line". In this case the "external" bombs would be replaces with DT's as appropriate but the "centreline" bomb would remain in place, allowing the a/c to carry ordnance at DT ranges. There's no explicit provision in the code of bombbay tanks. To override the above and allow an a/c to carry a full suite of ordnance and DT's, tag the "DT ordnance" field.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

196 mile radius of action at 162 MPH with no extra fuel

Enter 392 (2x196) in the RNG NORMAL field (or RNG EXT if you think this number represents a reasonable maximum tactical range). If this was an "official" AE bird the RNG NORMAL would be 80% of RNG EXT, ie RNG EXT = 392/80x100 = 490. This makes the assumption that it'd possible to push the a/c somewhat further on the same fuel load but at greater risk. But you can enter whatever value you like in the range fields obviously.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

592 mile radius of action at 174 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank
978 mile radius of action at 171 MPH with 270 gal bomb bay tank and 2 x 150 gal DT

You'd have to pick one set of drop tank ranges to work from, but otherwise the procedure is the same as above.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

247 mile radius of action at 180 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally
455 mile radius of action at 178 MPH with 2 x 1000 lb bombs internally, and 1 x 150 gal DT

200 mile radius of action at 173 MPH with 2 x Mk 13-3 Torpedoes under wings
598 mile radius of action at 172 MPH with 1 x Mk 13-3 Torpedo under the wing and 270 gal bomb bay tank

Here you have to decide whether you want the above to represent the non-DT range or the 198 miles figure given above and still have the 592/978 miles radius as the DT range. Can't have both unless you start making some different assumption about the relationship and meaning of the normal v extended range.

You also cannot have the TT's and the 1000lbs as alternate - the TT's a hardcoded to swap with 4x500lbs bombs IIRC.

I guessing you're more confused than even by now

One thing I have noticed through all of this is that Rocket type ordnance seems to be immune to reductions for the extended range and I believe for the DT range also (I'm not where I can double check that though). Am I correct in assuming there is special coding that treats the air launched rockets a bit differently?

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:34 am**

You also cannot have the TT's and the 1000lbs as alternate - the TT's a hardcoded to swap with 4x500lbs bombs IIRC.

So; if I was to put in TB2D Skypirate, which had a maximum payload of four (!) torpedoes under the wings; if it was toggled to the BOMBER mode; it would drop 16 x 500 lb bombs?

Posted: **Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:23 am**

I've been running tests on differant load outs and weapons. It looks like a torpedo is swapped with 2 500lb bombs.

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