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FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:43 pm
by BPRE

I got a combat report from the first attack towards Rabaul that said that the fort level was reduced to 0 but when I looked at it afterwards only the buidl percentage had decreased. Is this WAD, FOW or a bug? The manual doesn't mention fortifications as something that is randomized.

Here's before the attack:



/BPRE


Image

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:44 pm
by BPRE

Combat report:

Ground combat at Rabaul (106,125)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 1863 troops, 19 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 79
Defending force 2005 troops, 29 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 58
Japanese adjusted assault: 80
Allied adjusted defense: 61
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker:
Japanese ground losses:
218 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Allied ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Assaulting units:
Maizuru 1st SNLF
2nd Indpt SNLF Coy
Defending units:
B Coy/NG Rifles
Lark Battalion
Rabaul Det. Base Force

Here's what it looked like the next turn:

/BPRE

Image

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:30 pm
by pompack
Nothing definite, but here is what I have observed

1)Singers at level 4 with 78% complete to next level
2)Attack reports reducing fort from level 4 to level 1
3) base status indicates level 1 fort with 435% (!!!) progress
4) next attack reports reducing fort from level 3 to level 1
5) base status indicates level 1 fort with 80% progress

Conclusions:
1) the amount of effort required to build one level changes drasticaly with current level (the manual says this, it just doesn't say how much)
2) When the fort level is reduced by combat, the progress made toward the next level remains
3) when that progress is applied (along with one turn's worth of additional engineer effort) it can be enough to raise the current fort level up multiple steps

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:54 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: pompack

Nothing definite, but here is what I have observed

1)Singers at level 4 with 78% complete to next level
2)Attack reports reducing fort from level 4 to level 1
3) base status indicates level 1 fort with 435% (!!!) progress
4) next attack reports reducing fort from level 3 to level 1
5) base status indicates level 1 fort with 80% progress

Conclusions:
1) the amount of effort required to build one level changes drasticaly with current level (the manual says this, it just doesn't say how much)
2) When the fort level is reduced by combat, the progress made toward the next level remains
3) when that progress is applied (along with one turn's worth of additional engineer effort) it can be enough to raise the current fort level up multiple steps

I saw something similar at Akyab. After the attack (that reduced forts) the percentage was over 1200, and the following turn forts went from 1 to 2.

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:46 pm
by BPRE
ORIGINAL: pompack

Nothing definite, but here is what I have observed

1)Singers at level 4 with 78% complete to next level
2)Attack reports reducing fort from level 4 to level 1
3) base status indicates level 1 fort with 435% (!!!) progress
4) next attack reports reducing fort from level 3 to level 1
5) base status indicates level 1 fort with 80% progress

Conclusions:
1) the amount of effort required to build one level changes drasticaly with current level (the manual says this, it just doesn't say how much)
2) When the fort level is reduced by combat, the progress made toward the next level remains
3) when that progress is applied (along with one turn's worth of additional engineer effort) it can be enough to raise the current fort level up multiple steps

I think your conclusions are reasonable but I don't think the result of it is. It looks to me like a recalculation of the building progress is needed after a reduction.

/BPRE

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:54 pm
by pompack
ORIGINAL: BPRE
ORIGINAL: pompack

Nothing definite, but here is what I have observed

1)Singers at level 4 with 78% complete to next level
2)Attack reports reducing fort from level 4 to level 1
3) base status indicates level 1 fort with 435% (!!!) progress
4) next attack reports reducing fort from level 3 to level 1
5) base status indicates level 1 fort with 80% progress

Conclusions:
1) the amount of effort required to build one level changes drasticaly with current level (the manual says this, it just doesn't say how much)
2) When the fort level is reduced by combat, the progress made toward the next level remains
3) when that progress is applied (along with one turn's worth of additional engineer effort) it can be enough to raise the current fort level up multiple steps

I think your conclusions are reasonable but I don't think the result of it is. It looks to me like a recalculation of the building progress is needed after a reduction.

/BPRE

True, but I could make a case either way.

Taking a contrarian position and since neither numbers nor a process description for upgrading defences are provided in the manual I will assume the following:

1) All fortifications consist of piles of sandbags [8D]
2) it requires 100 sandbags to create a level 1 fort [:D]
and 1000 more to create a level 2 fort
and 10,000 more to create a level 3 fort
and 100,000 more to creat a level 4 fort (hey, if I am making up the process I at least ought to be able to keep the math simple [>:])

So, If I have a level 3 fort (11,100 sandbags in place) and I am 40% of the way to level 4 (another 40,000 sandbags filled in the rear area waiting to move forward when the rest are filled) and now an attack destroys 11,000 sandbags and knocks me back to level 1 then I can take my 40,000 extra sandbags and build back up to a level 3 fort (11,000 required) and still have 29% progress toward level 4

Now I certainly don't believe that this simplistic (and slightly rediculous) process is what is implemented in the code, but it does illustrate a possible model that would behave as we have seen in AE.

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:56 am
by Puhis
I think level 1 fort is nothing more than basic "foxholes". It takes hour or two to dig that. If defenders have to abandon their foxholes, they dig new ones.

RE: FOW or Bug? Fort build after attack

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:36 am
by BPRE
Pompack, I think that you have basically described the way it works mathematically but we know that these forts are not really as simple as just an amount of sandbags.
I would still like to see a recalculation of the fort level based on the progress towards next level before the combat report is written.
Since the fort level is going to be higher than the combat report claims one day later regardless if you continue building or not (assumption so maybe not correct) I would like to see a correct figure in the combat report OR a statement that this is part of FOW.

/BPRE