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how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:16 am
by bradfordkay
On Dec 8, I have five HDMLs at Rangoon, but the only TFs I can create are Transport, Cargo, Air Transport, Amphibious, Escort, and Support.
None of these TFs types appear to make use of the capabilities of HDMLs, so what am I supposed to do with them?
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:24 am
by jimh009
I was wondering the same thing. I dragged those HDML's over to Diamond Harbor, thinking they must have "some use." But for now, I have no clue what they do.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:30 am
by Zebedee
The manual says that HDMLs can perform local minesweeping (ie on the destination hex alone as opposed to normal minesweeping which is now the destination hex and the 6 hexes around it).
Can't see much use for them beyond keeping major ports clear of mines.
Odd they can't be given the minesweeping mission.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:28 am
by Mistmatz
IIRC these vessels have ASW weapons, so I assigned them a small patrol area to fend off midget attacks and sub mining.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:15 pm
by bradfordkay
In what kind of TF did you assign them? They do have ASW weapons, but for some reason I can't form an ASW TF with them...
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:56 pm
by mjk428
ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
In what kind of TF did you assign them? They do have ASW weapons, but for some reason I can't form an ASW TF with them...
I put them in escort missions and then follow. The short legs (and no ASW mission) make them fairly useless.
No sub contacts with them yet. The only action any have seen in my game is 4 got blown out of the water near Java by KB.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:38 pm
by dr. smith
They make great target ships for IJA Sallies and IJN Betties!
Just as good as the YPs (Yippies), use them outside LA to make Jap subs use up their torpedoes and have to go all the way to the Home Islands to re-arm!
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:42 pm
by sven6345789
best use is probably as escorts for barge taskforces
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:23 pm
by AW1Steve
They are great bomb magnets! Use up his ammo before he can bomb something valuable![:D]
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:49 pm
by Sardaukar
Except Escort mission is not useful for any combat purposes. Escort TF tries to avoid combat at all cost. See manual 6.1.1.1.
»» Escort. These are general purpose “ship movement” TFs. They are used to
evacuate damaged ships from the battle area, and to move ships between
bases. They cannot load or unload, or perform any other function, and will
flee all enemy forces. They may include any type of surface ship, including
those too badly damaged to fight. Maximum TF size is 100 ship
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:14 pm
by Zebedee
Surely a bug or a late change from what is written in the manual? There should be an option to do a 'Local Minesweeping' mission. Definitely isn't there for HDMLs I've checked at Georgetown. Just spent an hour scouring the manual to make sure I wasn't misreading it lol.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:15 pm
by pompack
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
Except Escort mission is not useful for any combat purposes. Escort TF tries to avoid combat at all cost. See manual 6.1.1.1.
»» Escort. These are general purpose “ship movement” TFs. They are used to
evacuate damaged ships from the battle area, and to move ships between
bases. They cannot load or unload, or perform any other function, and will
flee all enemy forces. They may include any type of surface ship, including
those too badly damaged to fight. Maximum TF size is 100 ship
That may be what makes them such great bomb magnets. [:D]
I had Singers hold out for five more days than it should have after I took the HDMLs and put then in and Escort TF and assigned them to stay at Singers. From that time until the army gave up, every raid (about three a day) targeted the HDMLs instead of the airfield (to prevent fortress rebuild) or ground units (which were down to less than 80 Assault strength by then).
As an Escort TF, they kept running away about three hexes then returning. This not only gave some patrol effect but seemed to make then priority targets.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:17 pm
by Zebedee
Ah, the minesweeping thing becomes clearer. Post on the Naval OOB and Issues sticky thread by Don Bowen:
I believe the manual says they can go into Local Minesweeping TFs, not that they can provide local minesweeping.
Y'all read this, I've gotten a bunch of questions in a similar vein.
HDMLs can be in a number of TF Types (missions) as escorts. They can not be the primary type in those TFs. To create a minesweeping TF you need a minesweeper. If you do have a minesweeper and create a minesweeping TF, you can add an HDML to it. But you can not create a minesweeping TF with only an HDML as HDML is not a defined minesweeper type.
It's a bit clearer with destroyers and Air Combat TF. DDs can be added to Air Combat TFs but a port that has no carriers and is full of destroyers will not allow you to form an Air Combat TF.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:19 pm
by Mynok
I'll bet the same is true for ASW TFs.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:40 pm
by mjk428
ORIGINAL: Mynok
I'll bet the same is true for ASW TFs.
You'd think - but no dice.
They can be put into local minesweep TFs if there is an AMc at the base with them. You don't even need to include the AMc in the TF.
The question I have is: Are they intended to be minesweepers? Are they just ASW boats that go along to protect minesweepers from subs (even though local minesweepers don't really need such protection IRL)?
Maybe we need a "local ASW" TF to go with "local minesweeping". Since that appears to have been their historical use as anti sub escorts.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:50 pm
by helldiver
Well, in game terms (and barring a patch resoultion of this), the only mission choices for HDMLs seem to be "escort" and "support." Yes, they carry DCs but the question that, maybe, a developer could answer is whether they will use the DCs in defense of, say, AKs. APs, or tenders in a "Support" TF? Right now, I am playing Allied in a Scenario 1 vs. AI. I am bugging out of southern Burma and am trying to evac Rangoon's shipping to Calcutta... I formed it as a "Support" TF and included the HDMLs... not likely they'll encounter any IJN subs but I'd like to know the answer to this; otherwise those nifty little 72 footers will have very limited utility...
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:08 pm
by SuluSea
ORIGINAL: mjk428
I put them in escort missions and then follow. The short legs (and no ASW mission) make them fairly useless.
No sub contacts with them yet. The only action any have seen in my game is 4 got blown out of the water near Java by KB.
That's what I've been doing in the DEI, other than the ASW help they make for targets to the oncoming bombers of the empire but they haven't been able to hit them yet[:D] attack the HDMLs all you like but stay away from my loaded transports. [;)]
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:49 pm
by Don Bowen
Yes, there is a rather ackward limitation with HDML. Because of their "harbor" nature we decided no to allow them into Surface Combat TFs. And limitations on ASW TFs eliminated them there. We had considered adding a Local Patrol Mission, similar to Local Patrol, but the ramifications on the entire design were significant. New Icons, tons of internal controls, documentation changes.
If any new mission types are added, I'd like to add local patrol. May happen, may not. Certainly not now.
RE: how are you using HDMLs?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:29 pm
by jwilkerson
ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
On Dec 8, I have five HDMLs at Rangoon, but the only TFs I can create are Transport, Cargo, Air Transport, Amphibious, Escort, and Support.
None of these TFs types appear to make use of the capabilities of HDMLs, so what am I supposed to do with them?
Those good ole "High Definition - Motor Launches" ??? [:D]
Well, if you're playing the Allies, they make pretty good target - stick them out there within range of the Bettys and have them "Troll for Bettys" (as I always say) they can absorb an attack that would've otherwise gone after real ships.
If you're the Japanese, well they make great targets, as well, so see 'em and sink 'em!!!
[:D]
HDML? Anyway you slice it - they are targets!