Matrix Games Forums

I think it might be useful to have some kind of rule in the program code that requires an enemy Surface Combat TF to first defeat an Escort TF soundly before they can attack an Amphibious or Transport TF that is being escorted by an Escort TF that are both in the same hex.

I recently had some strange combat results, One of my strongest Japanese surface combat groups (with 2 BBs, 2 CAs, 1 CL, and 6 DDs) was on a Escort Mission leading a Transport TF that was following at zero range for supplying AA guns to Brunei. And 2 Alled DDs attacked. Once again I noticed that the Japanese battleships don't seem to be able to hit allied destroyers for nothing, and this was in broad daylight at a combat range starting at 21,000 yards. But that is another issue that is not the point of this thread. The two allied DDs fought my powerful surface combat to roughly a draw, I managed to sink one allied DD, but the other one got away as the two groups disengaged from combat. Then to my surprise the allied DD that survived attacked my Transport TF and ripped up my ships sending them all home with heavy damage, and my Escort Group still in good fighting condition did nothing about it.

I can understand if a DD gets through and maybe gets off some torpodes on 1 ship, but I can not believe my Escort TF would sit around and do nothing while 1 allied DD ripped up the entire transport fleet. Granted, I only had some anti-sub escorts inside the Transport TF, and sometimes I put a cruiser in or two for AA protection, but not this time since I had 2 CVLs a couple hexes away providing LR CAP to the transport fleet, and I think it is unrealistic to expect us to put in more capital ships inside of my amphibious or transport TF when I had a powerful surfact combat task force escorting it at zero range - we just don't have enough BBs to do that - a more elegant solution in my opinion is to require the attacking enemy ships to soundly defeat my Escort TF first. You can see the results of the combat below, that :


1ST COMBAT RESULTS:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Bunguran at 59,83, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Haruna
CA Takao
CA Atago
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2
DD Asashio, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Oshio
DD Michishio, Shell hits 1
DD Arashio, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD Akatsuki
DD Hibiki

Allied Ships
DD Tenedos
DD Jupiter, Shell hits 9, and is sunk


2ND COMBAT RESULTS:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Bunguran at 59,83, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
APD Hagi, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
xAKL Ryoyu Maru #21, Shell hits 4
xAK Ryugi Maru, Shell hits 3
xAKL Saiko Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Sanuki Maru, Shell hits 4, heavy fires
xAKL Sasago Maru, Shell hits 4, heavy fires

Allied Ships
DD Tenedos, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 17 (8 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (3 destroyed, 3 disabled)



AND FOR THOSE WHO LOVE THE DETAILS:

1st Combat Details:

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
DD Jupiter engages DD Akatsuki at 21,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages DD Jupiter at 21,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Jupiter at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages DD Jupiter at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Jupiter at 17,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages DD Jupiter at 17,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Jupiter at 17,000 yards
DD Jupiter engages DD Michishio at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Jupiter at 14,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Jupiter at 14,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Jupiter at 14,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Jupiter at 14,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Jupiter at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
DD Jupiter engages DD Arashio at 12,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages DD Jupiter at 12,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Jupiter at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Jupiter at 11,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 11,000 yards
DD Arashio engages DD Tenedos at 11,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Jupiter at 11,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oshio at 11,000 yards
Thew, N.V.J.T. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Jupiter at 9,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Jupiter at 9,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Tenedos at 9,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages DD Jupiter at 9,000 yards
DD Hibiki engages DD Tenedos at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Jupiter at 12,000 yards
DD Asashio engages DD Tenedos at 12,000 yards
CL Jintsu engages DD Jupiter at 12,000 yards
DD Akatsuki engages DD Jupiter at 12,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Asashio at 12,000 yards
Range increases to 16,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Jupiter at 16,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Jupiter at 16,000 yards
DD Jupiter sunk by CA Takao at 16,000 yards
Thew, N.V.J.T. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 19,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Tenedos at 19,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Tenedos at 19,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Akatsuki at 19,000 yards
DD Michishio engages DD Tenedos at 19,000 yards
Range increases to 20,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Tenedos at 20,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Tenedos at 20,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Arashio at 20,000 yards
DD Oshio engages DD Tenedos at 20,000 yards
Range increases to 23,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Tenedos at 23,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Tenedos at 23,000 yards
CA Takao engages DD Tenedos at 23,000 yards
Range increases to 26,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Tenedos at 26,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Tenedos at 26,000 yards
Range increases to 30,000 yards
BB Kongo engages DD Tenedos at 30,000 yards
CA Takao engages DD Tenedos at 30,000 yards
Thew, N.V.J.T. orders Allied TF to disengage
Task forces break off...



2nd Combat Details:

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 18,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages APD Hagi at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAK Sanuki Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAKL Ryoyu Maru #21 at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages APD Hagi at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages APD Hagi at 3,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAKL Ryoyu Maru #21 at 3,000 yards
Dyer, R.I. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAK Sanuki Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAK Ryugi Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAKL Sasago Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages xAKL Saiko Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
Range increases to 16,000 yards
Task forces break off...

ORIGINAL: tacfire

I recently had some strange combat results, One of my strongest Japanese surface combat groups (with 2 BBs, 2 CAs, 1 CL, and 6 DDs) was on a Escort Mission leading a Transport TF that was following at zero range for supplying AA guns to Brunei.

Was the surface combat group on a Surface Combat mission or an Escort mission? I believe the Escort mission is for ships that are damaged, and ships with that mission try to avoid contact with the enemy.

Oh my bad - they were on Escort Mission not Surface Combat. I thought Escort Mission would keep them in the same hex as the transports and keep them close to defending those ships, whereas in a surface combat group they might react to something outside the hex and leave the transport group.

So if I use a Surface Combat TF instead of Escort TF these results could have been avaoided? The 2nd combat would not have occured until my Surface Combat group was first soundly defeated?

ORIGINAL: tacfire

I think it might be useful to have some kind of rule in the program code that requires an enemy Surface Combat TF to first defeat an Escort TF soundly before they can attack an Amphibious or Transport TF that is being escorted by an Escort TF that are both in the same hex.

Ouch! Wrong TF type. Make that a surface TF with a 0 react range.