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I went through the OOBs for Germany, Japan, Italy, USA, UK, and USSR and sorted the prices of the SPWAW AFVs as they are currently (v2.3). Note that these are ONLY prices for AFVs, and do not include self-propelled artillery, or any other unit types (no halftracks, trucks, guns, infantry, etc.).


Germany Maus 250
UK Centurion 3 223
Germany Jagdtiger 220
Germany Elefant/44 202
Germany Elefant/43 200
USSR IS-3 194
Germany Tiger II 188
USSR IS-2m 178
USSR IS-1 178
UK Crocodile 171
UK Centurion 2 165
Germany Jagdpanther 161
UK Centurion 1 156
UK Churchill AVRE 149
Germany Nashorn 147
Germany Panther UHU 144
USSR IS-2 139
UK Sherman IIC 138
UK VC Firefly 137
UK Sherman IC 135
USSR KV-85 129
USA M46 Patton 128
UK Churchill VII 128
USSR T-44 126
Germany Panther G 125
UK Challenger 123
Germany Panther A 121
USSR T-34/85 120
USA M26 Patton 119
USA M4a3e2 Jumbo 76 117
Germany Tiger I 117
Germany Panther D 116
Germany Sturmtiger 116
UK Comet 113
USSR ISU-122 113
UK Churchill VIII 106
UK M-10 Achilles 102
UK Churchill VI 101
USA M4a3e2 Jumbo 100
Germany Brummbar 100
USSR SU-100 99
UK Churchill IV 98
USSR PT-34 96
UK Churchill III 95
UK Sherman IIA 94
USSR KV-8 94
Germany JPz-IV/70B 94
UK Churchill IVNA 92
USSR ISU-152 91
USA M4a3/76W Sher 89
USA M4a3e8 HVSS 88
UK Sherman DD 88
UK Archer 88
Germany JPz-IV/70A 88
UK Wolverine 87
USSR SU-152 87
USA M36 Jackson 86
UK Sherman Crab 85
UK SherDozer 85
UK Churchill I 83
USSR KV-1/41 82
USSR KV-1S 82
USSR KV-1/42 82
UK Churchill VCS 81
Japan Type 5 Chi-Re 81
USSR KV-1/40 80
USSR KV-2a 80
USSR SU-85 80
USSR SU-122 79
UK Valentine DD 78
USSR Mark IV 78 (L/L Churchill)
USSR OT-34 78
USSR Capt Pz IV 78 (captured)
USA M4a2/76 Sherman 77
UK Cromwell VII 77
UK Valentine XI 77
USSR M4/76 77 (Lend Lease)
UK Sherman Ib CS 75
USSR KV-1/39 75
UK Cromwell IV 74
USA Sherman DD 73
USA M4 105mm 73
USSR Mark VIII 73 (L/L Churchill)
Germany JPz-IV/48 73
Germany Pz-IVh 73
USA M4a3/75W Sher 72
USSR T-34/43 72
USSR T-43 72 ("Jumbo" T-34/43)
Germany Pz-IVg 72
UK Valentine IX 71
Germany Pz-IVj 71
USA M4a1/76 Sherman 70
USA M4a1 Dozer 70
USA Sherman Flail 70
UK Cromwell VICS 70
UK Sherman III 70
Germany Stg-IIIg 70
Germany Tauchpz-IV 70
USSR T-34/41 69
Japan Type 4 Chi-To 69
USA M4a3 Sherman 68
USA M4a1 Flame 68
UK Cromwell I 68
UK Sherman V 68
Germany Hetzer 68
Germany Stg-IV 68
Germany Pz T-34/43 68 (captured)
Germany Pz-IVf2 67
UK Scorpion 66
Italy SMV M41/90 66
Japan Type 38 Ho-Ro 66
USA M4a2 Sherman 65
UK Sherman I 65
USSR T-34/40 65
USSR M4/75a 65 (Lend Lease)
Germany Pz T-34/41 65 (captured)
Germany Stg-IIIf8 64
USA M4a1 Sherman 62
Germany Flammpz-38 62
USSR M4/75b 61 (Lend Lease)
USA M4 Sherman 60
USA M10 Wolverine 60
UK Matilda Frog 60
USSR M-10 60 (Lend Lease)
Germany Stg-IIIf 60
Germany StIG-33b 60
Germany Tauchpz-III 60
Germany Ostwind 60
Japan Type1 Ho-Ni III 60
Japan Type 97 Flame 60
USA M3A1 Lee 59
UK Grant 59
USSR M3S/Lee 59 (Lend Lease)
Germany Pz-IIIm 59
UK AEC III 58
UK Matilda II 58
UK Valentine V 58
USSR SU-76i 58 (tank destroyer)
USSR Mark II 58 (L/L Churchill)
USSR Mark III 58 (L/L Churchill)
Japan Type 3 Chi-Nu 58
Germany Pz-IIIj(s) 57
UK Valentine II 56
Italy P-26/40 56
Germany Pz-IIIj 55
Japan Type 1 Ho-Ni II 55
Germany Pz-IIIh 54
Germany Flammpz-III 54
UK AEC II 53
Italy SMV M43/105 53
UK Crusader III 52
UK Matilda IIICS 52
UK Crusader AA-1 52
Germany PSW 234/4 52
Germany StuH-42 52
Germany Pz-IIIg 51
Germany MinenRam-III 50
Germany Wirbelwind 50
Japan Type 97 Flail 50
USSR T-28/40 49
USSR T-28/40 49
Germany Marder III(h) 49
Germany Pz-IVf 49
Japan Type 1 Chi-He 49
USA M24 Chaffee 48
UK Crusader IVCS 48
USSR SU-76i(g) 48 (assault gun)
Japan Type 97 Dozer 48
UK Crusader AA-2 47
USSR Capt Pz III 47 (captured)
Germany Marder II 47
Germany JPz-38 47
Germany Grille-38t 46
Italy M-15/42 46
Italy SMV M43/75 46
Japan Type 97 Special 46
USA M18 Hellcat 45
Germany PSW 234/2 45
UK AEC I 44
UK Crusader II 44
Germany Marder III(M) 44
Germany Pz-IVe 44
Germany Gw-38t 44
Germany LaS 762 43
Japan Shinhoto Chi-Ha 43
USA M19 Duster 42
UK Stuart V 42
UK Crusader I 42
UK Deacon 42
USSR T-50 42
USSR T-35a 42
Germany Pz-IVd 42
Germany Stg-IIIe 42
UK Staghound 41
Germany Pz-38t(e) 41
Japan Type 4 Lt 41
UK Crusader IICS 40
Germany PSW 234/3 40
Germany Stg-IIIb 40
Germany sIG-II 40
Italy M-13/40 40
Japan Type 2 Ka-Mi 40
UK Daimler I 39
UK Stuart VI 39
Germany Pz-IIIe 39
Germany Pz-IVc 39
Germany Flammpz-II 39
UK Staghound CS 38
UK M8 Greyhound 38
UK Crusader ICS 38
UK Staghound AA 38
USSR T-70 38
USSR BT-7M 38
USSR T-28/34 38
Japan Type 91 Heavy 38
USSR SU-57 37
Germany Pz-38t 37
Italy M-11/39 37
Japan Type 97 Chi-Ha 37
UK Stuart I a 36
UK Cruiser I 36
USSR SU-76M 36
USSR OT-134 36
Germany PSW 233 36
Germany sIG-33 36
Germany Flammwg/16 36
Japan Type 95 Special 36
USA M15a1 35
UK Humber IV 35
UK Wasp 35
USSR BT-7 35
Japan Type 1 Ho-Ni I 35
UK M-H III 34
UK Cruiser III 34
UK Locust 34
USSR T-26/39 34
USSR BT-5 34
USSR ZiS-30 34
Germany Pz-35t 34
Japan Type 2 Ho-I 34
Japan Type 98 Ke-Ni 34
USA M5 Stuart 33
UK Cruiser II 33
UK Cruiser IV 33
USSR BT-7a 33
Japan Type 95 Ha-Go 33
Japan Type 89A Chi-Ro 33
USA M8 HMC Scott 32
USSR T-26/33 32
Japan Type 97B Te-Ke 32
Japan Type 3 Lt 32
Japan Type 89B Yi-Go 32
UK M-H IIIv 31
UK Cruiser IICS 31
UK Tetrarch 31
USA M16 30
UK Vickers II med 30
USSR BA-10 30
USSR BT-2M33 30
USSR BT-5a 30
Germany Pz-35R 731 30
USA M3A1 Stuart 29
USA M2 Medium 29
UK Matilda I 29
USSR ZSU-M17 29
UK M-H IIv 28
UK Cruiser IVCS 28
UK Humber AA 28
UK Tetrarch CS 28
USSR BA-6 28
Germany PSW 234/1 28
UK Mk I Mineplough 27
UK M-16 27
Italy SMV L40/47 27
Japan Type 92B Tkt 27
USA M3 Stuart 26
UK Stuart Recce 26
USSR M3L/Stuart 26 (Lend Lease)
USSR GAZ-37 26
USSR ZSU-37 26
Germany PSW 222 26
Germany JPz-35R(f) 26
UK Humber SC 25
UK M-17 25
USSR SU-12 25
Germany Pz-IIL 25
Japan Type 89(f) 25
USA M8 Greyhound 24
USA M2A4 24
Japan Type 2592 24
UK Humber II 23
Germany PSW 231-8 23
Germany Pz-IIf 23
Italy L6/40 23
UK Daimler Dingo 22
UK 2pdr Portee 22
USSR T-40b 22
Germany JPz-1b 22
UK Humber LRC 21
UK Mk VI AA 21
USSR T-60 21
Germany PSW 231-6 21
Germany Pz-IIc 21
USSR T-62 20
USSR SU-37 20
UK Mk VI c 19
UK Mk VI b 19
USSR GAZ-4M 19
USA M20 Scout+ 18
USA M2A2 Mae West 18
USSR T-40a 18
Japan Type 92 Osaka 18
Germany Pz-Ib 17
Italy Autoblinda 41 17
USA M1 Combat Car 16
UK M-H IIME 16
Japan Type 91 Sumida 16
Japan Type 97A Te-Ke 16
Japan Type 94 Tkt 15
Germany PSW 221 14
UK Vickers II a 13
USSR BT-2M30 13
Italy L3/33 13
USA M20 Scout 12
USA M1917A1 12
UK Rolls Royce AC 12
USSR BA-20 12
USSR BA-64 12
UK White SC 11
USA M1917 10
USSR T-37a 10

Originally posted by victorhauser:
... Note that these are ONLY prices for AFVs,..

Germany Maus 250
UK Centurion 3 223
..

Is this in Euros or dollars?

------------------
An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Why not throw in the other countries? At least the ones with indigenous designs, like France and Poland. I think you may have missed a few: Italian M 14/41, CV 33 LF, etc. Plenty of food for thought here. Oh, the Flammwagen /16 is a halftrack so you should take it out, unless you mean to include any sort of halftrack that is not a transport unit. In that case, you're probably missing some more.

[This message has been edited by Seth (edited 07-05-2000).]

That's a lot of work there Victor. It reveals a lot. Such as the UK Wolverine being too expensive, and M10's and M4A1's shouldn't cost the SAME, Jackson's seem underpriced. The StuH-42 seems underpriced, and Hellcat's seem a bit underpriced for their ridiculous speed. And like you've been saying for ages, Tigers seem painfully underpriced.

Tomo

Geezz Victor you are a real eager Beaver. Nice work.

Tankhead

------------------
Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://sites.netscape.net/rcclout

Thnaks Victor I will post this over on the OOB list and see if more can be filled in!

Also there is the problem of captured Tanks.

USSR T-34/43 : 72
German PzKw T-34/43 : 68

When i introduced the captured T-34 in german OOB in Steel 1, i had to price it at one and a half the price of the USSR. First i put it at the same price and the AI picked way too much of them (eg used to have a whole core of them , no more tigers or Pz IV) Then i raised it and the AI only picked one platoon from time to time, with a main core of Pz IV and a few tigers.

I don't know how SpWaW ai picks up its units, only played scens, not campaigns yet. But in any case the price of captured equipment should be risen to reflect its rarity.

Hmmmm,

Still looks like a Tiger is cheaper than a Firefly which is surely not right?

Still, more patient than me!

Again, the blasted Firefly is a "medium-class tank", right (the Tiger a heavy)? Though it does show the Nashorn is either way overpriced or the Tiger too cheap. Afterall, in tonnage, the Nashorn is probably pretty light, but it does have the size of a heavy. Despite what class it falls in, it should be cheaper than the Tiger, though an argument could be made contrary to that (though slightly) when you consider that it's gun is actually better than the Tiger's.

Actually this points out another thing to me, but it depends on what plays off of what. Definitely the T34/85 shouldn't be more expensive than the Tiger (different class for a start), but also note that the T34/85 is more expensive the the deadly SU-100. The SU-100 I'm quite sure was made in smaller numbers (though we're not considering that, again) and has more armor thickness and larger gun. On the other side of the coin the T34/85 while having less armor "ratings" actually is a larger vehicle, and when considering the difference in the size of the vehicles, it may have more "total" armor, because there's more area to cover. In other words, covering an area the sixe of an inch with 200mm of armor, is less armor than covering two feet with 30mm.

Plus, the T-34/43 and the T-43 (aptly called the Jumbo T-34/43) are both 72 points. Even the AI has noticed the discrepancy, and periodically fields battalions of the "readily available" T-43. Also, I noticed the German Pz-IVg is 72 points, which should make it a similar match to the T34/43 and the T-43. The first maybe, the second, well... no.

Makes for interesting reading, victorhauser.

Originally posted by O de B:
Also there is the problem of captured Tanks...
snippage
... I don't know how SpWaW ai picks up its units, only played scens, not campaigns yet. But in any case the price of captured equipment should be risen to reflect its rarity.

When I first got SPWAW and was getting used to the system before engaging in some PBEM, I started a campaign as British v Germans starting in 1944.
As it happened, my part of the Falaise Pocket was defended entirely by T-34s with no native German armour anywhere to be seen. I'd forgotten about that until I read your post, O de B.

On the armour cost list: Wow, it's quite something to be able to compare points costs without fiddling about with the encyclopedia.

I can't help feeling that a lot of British armour is overpriced. Out of the twenty most expensive units 8 are British, 8 German and only 4 USSR. Even the post-War Centurions are only around the level of the Tiger (or Tiger II in the case of the Centurion MkIII, definitely not the Maus) and yet they are spectacularly more expensive.
I think it comes down to the 17 pounder gun (or 20 pounder with the Centurion MkIII) as can be seen if you look at the difference between the Sherman IIC and Sherman IIA. The IIC has a 17 pound gun, IIA has 75mm (IIRC) and 2 more .30 cals yet there's 44 points between them. These are the only differences, everything else is identical.
The 17 pounder is a good gun but not as good as any of the German 88mm guns. The Firefly 17 pounder has a higher penetration, lower accuracy and smaller warhead than the Tiger's 88mm main gun. Given the fact that British armour is far less armoured (Sherman IIC and Firefly have around half the armour of a Tiger) and their cost becomes way too high.
Granted both the Firefly and Sherman IIC are faster tanks than the Tiger (by 3 and 5 hexes respectively) but I don't think this alone can account for such a huge price difference.

The expense of British tanks with 17 pounder main guns makes it very difficult to field anything with the punch to get through German heavy armour especially when they are vulnerable to just about all German AT units (on account of their cake-tin armour).

I could be wrong and British tanks are prices correctly but they do seem to be relatively weak compared to their German counterparts.

I have to agree with Spunkgibbon 100%. Also why are British tanks sometimes costed differently when serving with other armies?? Some corrections have been made since version1, but the firefly costs only 107 points when fighting with the Indian army, 30 less than with the British Army. This surely cant be right.

I have not checked, but might this be the case also with US equipment with other armies? If so then it seems to me it should be standardised if the tanks themselves are exactly the same and not modified in any way.

Cheers
Al