Matrix Games Forums

Anyone out there get their pipeline from the West Coast to Oz set up yet? I'm in the process and not sure how I want to do it yet... I'm thinking Supply from San Fran and Fuel from LA. My main issue - do I need to set up "refueling" bases along the way using waypoints and tactical/minimal refuel? Or can TKs and AKs make the long haul with DD/PC escorts without refueling?

Any thoughts from someone farther along would be appreciated. Thanks.

I don't think you've got many escorts that can make the trip without refueling, either from TF ships or bases along the way.  I usually build up Palmyra and Canton as refueling stops, but the KB's tendency to go cruising east of the Marshalls has caused me to look at Christmas and Pago Pago instead.

I've got a sizable supply/fuel base at a couple of those bases (Andy I know you're reading this   ) but getting supplies to Australia so far has had to take a back seat to the situations in CentPac and SoPac right now.  Fortunately other than Port Moresby and Darwin I've not needed much in the way of supplies there yet...

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

  I usually build up Palmyra and Canton as refueling stops, but the KB's tendency to go cruising east of the Marshalls has caused me to look at Christmas and Pago Pago instead.

Nuku Hiva is looking more & more attractive to me.

Anyone out there get their pipeline from the West Coast to Oz set up yet? I'm in the process and not sure how I want to do it yet... I'm thinking Supply from San Fran and Fuel from LA. My main issue - do I need to set up "refueling" bases along the way using waypoints and tactical/minimal refuel? Or can TKs and AKs make the long haul with DD/PC escorts without refueling?

You don't have to set up bases along the way, the bigger ships will refuel the escorts, but it's a very good idea to do so IMO. As John Lansford suggested, it would also be wise not to count on bases too close to the front lines.

I'm focused on making sure the South Pacific bases aren't just full of supplies but also well protected. For the most part OZ is currently living off of supply from Cape Town and DEI. Suva & Aukland are much more important bases to me than in the previous game. Those two are the ends of my US pipeline for now. Only troops & planes (plus the supplies carried with them) are going further on to OZ.

In the past I've always set up a hub at Pago Pago. It's not quite the best choice now IMO, not sure what is, but I'm using it for now out of habit.

Plan "A" and an old habit from WITP - original would be Christmas Island, Pago, Pago, and Suva. They have some engineers there and small ports that can be expanded. However, with the increased FOW and adjustment to the new ranges and map scale, KB may come for a visit and sink too many of your precious TKs. Thus, Plan "B" may be a series of bases a little further back, like the Society Islands. Gone are the days of having transports of any kind that can be thrown away.  

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Anyone out there get their pipeline from the West Coast to Oz set up yet? I'm in the process and not sure how I want to do it yet... I'm thinking Supply from San Fran and Fuel from LA. My main issue - do I need to set up "refueling" bases along the way using waypoints and tactical/minimal refuel? Or can TKs and AKs make the long haul with DD/PC escorts without refueling?

Any thoughts from someone farther along would be appreciated. Thanks.

With only roughly 300k total tanker lift for the US, fuel in OZ or anywhere in the South or Southwest Pacific is going to be a very rare commodity. My only advice is to try and set up long haul convoys from the west coast that can make the round trip without refueling until you get a base like Pago Pago built up to a point where spoilage is no longer a factor. Then create a huge fuel hub, but not until the base is well protected.

Japan knows the US is critically weak when it comes to fuel and will be looking to hit any base that appears to be a fuel hub. So don't waste the precious fuel lift by dumping it into a base that isn't well protected.

I'd send the initial tanker lifts to Pearl, NZ and OZ. Keep those tanker lifts running until you get Pago Pago, Canton, or some other base well built up, with troops well dug in, and a strong airforce stationed there. Then start making the fuel runs there, which will then allow you to use the shorter legged AKs for supply runs to OZ with a stopover at the fuel hub.

So until that can be done, I think OZ will rely very heavily on shipments from the British out of Cape Town. Which of course puts a strain on India and Burma needs.

You can also try sending a lot of the shorter legged US AKs to the East coast, and supplementing Cape Town's production with shipments from there. But I've not yet tried that, so I'm not sure if it's too far or not for the AKs with just 11000-15000 endurance.

Jim

... and the new, unpredictable AI has given me much pause in setting up the pipeline... generally, I am doing ALL of the above by using more, smaller, and  escorted  supply/fuel TFs to try to set up as many fuel stations as possible... the escorts are required to fend off the more aggressive IJN subs off the West Coast and the smaller TFs are to soften the blow of KB visits and of possible invasions where I would never have expected them in Witp (Canton, e.g.)... generally, it's two lines of bases--one around Canton's latitude line and one on the Pago Pago line.... I agree that Suva (starts as Port 3, I think) and NZ can be the terminus of the pipeline for starters... just move smaller TKs and AK/AKLs to transship from there to OZ... this would all be maddeningly impossible w/o the wonderful new waypoint system AND the ability to custom name my TFs to keep everything straight.... I like the intellectual exercise of trying to keep as much of this as I can dancing in my head, rather than on paper, computer or otherwise... what fun!

Regards,
Helldiver

edit: Mr. Burns got there just ahead of me....

As for supplies (not fuel), one of the best and easiest ways to supply Australia is to use Cape Town. run a few cargo TF's from Cape Town to Perth. From Perth, the supplies will automatically be spread out across Australia as needed. You do lose some to spoilage this way, but it's a lot shorter trip from Cape Town than from San Francisco.

Fuel is definitely harder to get to Oz. The Allies have so few tankers, their capacities are smaller and your needs are just as large as in stock. I've been "holding steady" in the fuel department, but I've been unable to build up any sort of big reserve or cushion of fuel in Australia. I have just enough to keep everything going.

My line of bases is Los Angeles - Christmas Island - Pago Pago - Suva - Sydney.

I use SF as the hub for the bulk cargo runs, and Los Angeles as the hub for the tanker runs.

So the flow of fuel and supplies to LA and SF is continuous from the East Coast, or do we need to have TF's go over to the East Coast and pick it up?

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

So the flow of fuel and supplies to LA and SF is continuous from the East Coast, or do we need to have TF's go over to the East Coast and pick it up?

Continuous via high capacity rail & pipelines.

after checking the assets
a) high endurance xAK and xTK etx. should try to make a non-stop run to New Zealand and Oz from the west-coast
b) low endurance xAKL and xTK should be used to spread the supply to the bases in south pac and SW pac needing them, in small TF (otherwise, they do not fit into the harbors.
same is of course true for the APs

some escorts can make the whole trip; wouldn't use the 1800 AMs though, (example: Darwin) They should be used for Minesweeping, maybe assisting in escort duty in case a TF comes by. generally, take the Flower class escorts as a benchmark (3500-4000 endurance); otherwise, the refueling of the escorts slows down the TF too much.

I have found that Cape Town -> Perth is lot more convenient than sending stuff from West Coast to Oz.

I made it this way, too. But i got visits of a japanese carrier group and lost some ships. Now i have some fighter and bomber squadrons there. 

wrong thread- post deleted.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

So the flow of fuel and supplies to LA and SF is continuous from the East Coast, or do we need to have TF's go over to the East Coast and pick it up?

Continuous via high capacity rail & pipelines.

Also helps if you set LA/SF to max supply requested. Usually that will get them to ~50k minimum. I've found it's much easier to take it from Capetown to Perth... and then from Perth, smaller, better escorted TFs distribute it to Darwin/Derby. I also set Sydney and Brisbane (and any other bases I will want to build up along the east coast of Oz) to max supply requested in order to suck that supply from Perth along the rails.

I tried Capetown to Perth. I was kind of surprised how quickly you can draw Capetown down until the next convoy arrives... or what ever governs fuel supply there.

On the other hand.... Multiple trips by short-legged tankers from the Middle East to Colombo, and then the long-legged variety from Colombo to Perth looks to be the fastest method to fuel Oz, if you have a small fleet of escorted tankers that then run to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, and so on. Even those little tankers with a 3k endurance have a use in this plan. Given my exposure to the commercial side... I just hate to see empty ships clogging the anchorages.

It's also my impression that things moving from Capetown are best ignored until they actually show up. Then it is a pleasant surprise: Oh look, four squadrons of the 1oth Air Force at Madras, via Capetown, just as the Japanese are rolling up Magwe. Now I can leave all of the Hurricanes on Ceylon to greet any raids.

I decided to try this in my most recent re-work of my "best start" after reading "somewhere," that about 75% of oil in Oz, SOPAC, SWPAC, was from the middle east.

I do send any 16 knot tankers to the West Coast for special escorted runs with other fast ships carrying needed troops, marines, engineers, planes, etc.

And, having recently come to some more complete decisions about which South Pacific ports to "really develop" I still plan to experiment with my Cristobal to points-west runs for supply build up, while saving west coast ports for more specific operations.