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Fatigue
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:58 pm
by cantona2
The new fatigue model is unforgiving. Leave your air units on constant patrol ala WitP at your peril [X(]
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:09 pm
by dpstafford
ORIGINAL: cantona2
The new fatigue model is unforgiving. Leave your air units on constant patrol ala WitP at your peril [X(]
Welcome to more micro-management hell.........
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:17 am
by Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:29 am
by Fishbed
nothin.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:36 am
by sfbaytf
I like it. Sending out planes on 8+ hour missions 5+ days a week is unrealistic. You now need to stand down and give units a rest. It also makes sense of the 2 units up and ready for action and 1 on reserve and resting doctrine.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:43 am
by dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:47 am
by Fishbed
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
Nice. Then would you please stop bothering people who do, and scaring away people who may sometime soon, that'll be great. Thanks in advance.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:58 am
by Mike Scholl
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
Having bought the game, you are certainly entitled to your opinion..., but I've been playing it for over a year (as a PBEM testor) and haven't found it unplayable. Difficult and challanging certainly..., but hardly unplayable.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:07 am
by witpqs
Hey Mike, someone brought up the ops loss rate of the USN PBY4/5/5A in another thread. I'm seeing the same thing, namely that with strictly only 50% search and very few losses to combat (PH and PI early game aside) I just cannot keep the squadrons in planes. Some are full or near full, but some stay with 4 to 6 planes and the pools are empty. Obviously not talking about the Dutch PBY5's which are a separate pool anyway (they get creamed in heavy combat in DEI).
I've done two AI games through late July early August '42, both the same deal.
What have you seen? Are they too brittle and need adjusting? Were the USN Catalinas really that loss prone and in short supply?
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:26 am
by rockmedic109
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
FOr a game that is unplayable, there seems to be an awful lot of people playing it.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:09 am
by Sheytan
WITP was micromanagement as well, I dont see how AE is expotentially different? THAT is after all the real appeal of the game, there are a number of abstracted grand strategy games that do not delve into the details, and as you know...the devil is in the details. How that phrase applies to AE is you must master them to be sucessful.
I find AE to be a quantum leap over WITP. Like it or not micromanagement is part and parcel of games with this level of detail, failure to pay attention to that detail is at your own peril. WITP was no different in this respect.
I consider my investment into AE well worth the cost, and the people that made it deserve our courtesy for the effort, even if you do not feel it is worthwhile for you personally to invest in the game.
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:15 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
this is only true though if they also have changed WHO in the squadron is flying. In WITP nav search 100% never really accumulated fat (good thing because otherwise it´s just too much micromanagement and this also was the reason for it). BUT if you have set your squadrons to 50% then always the same 50% of pilots were flying. So if this wasn´t changed then now you see the total fat of the squadron going down but there are still always the same pilots in the air accumulating insane fatigue...
hopefully it was changed and isn´t that way... [&:]
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:17 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: rockmedic109
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
FOr a game that is unplayable, there seems to be an awful lot of people playing it.
or trying to do...
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:58 am
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion, AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
You are on record, and you were complaining about AE before it was released. That is also part of the record.
It is impolite to go into another s home to fart.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:00 am
by cantona2
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion,
AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
I think the vast majority will disagree with this statement. AE is not WitP.
For the record, the original post was not a rant, rather a warning to fellow players.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:08 am
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: cantona2
ORIGINAL: dpstafford
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Yes, very sensible.
But shouldn't the game be about more than weighting transports and doing pilot bed checks? Yet this sort of stuff, even after you get it down, is still going to take up three quarters of your playing time? To what end? There were other less burden-some ways to slow the game pace.
They already have my money for AE. And I'm OK with that since I got way, way, way, way more than my money's worth playing WITP these last 5 years. They can consider it a contribution to WITP 2. (Which, BTW, I have heard will mandate selection of all of the bridge officers on every capital ship. Complete with PP penalty if you select the wrong ensign as the captain's assistant).
In my opinion,
AE is unplayable (and not because of bugs). And I won't be playing it.
I think the vast majority will disagree with this statement. AE is not WitP.
For the record, the original post was not a rant, rather a warning to fellow players.
We know that.[;)]
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:11 am
by invernomuto
I love the new fatigue model and air combat in AE. IMHO the Air team guys won the difficult challenge to give us a more realistic air combat model in a game of this scope.
You have to manage your air units carefully, setting rest % or fatigue will goes up like a rocket. It's a big improvement over WITP IMHO and does not require a lot more micromanagement.
My 0.02 cents.
Bye
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:48 am
by Chris21wen
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Even in stock I never left them on 100% only did that when needed.
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:03 am
by tigercub
A good way to keep a eye on your pilot fatigue just go the all planes botton click then click fatigue so that the highest is up the top to the lowest on list and rest the top few that need help.
Once a turn or every second turn, saves looking around map.
But i feel not so much needed in AE
Tiger!
RE: Fatigue
Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:17 am
by Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
just dont leave them on 100% .. simple. this isnt WITP so dont expect what worked in WITP to work in AE , learn and adapt.
IE CAP at 40-50 % seems sustainable . any higher and fatigue rockets . hence a high CAP level is only achieveable for a short time .. makes sense to me . adapt your air % to circumstances.
Even in WiTP, I didn't have 100% 'anything'. I always accounted for unit fatigue by ensuring that my air units had some rest periods built into their schedule. 70-80% naval search at *normal* range was my default in WiTP and it has served me well in AE too. I don't see appreciable crippling levels of fatigue in my air units as a result.