Matrix Games Forums

Browsing this forum is incredible, for lots of reasons. For me, the most gratifying one is knowing there ARE other people out there who have looked forward to a game like this as much as I have and for as long as I have. The Solomons Campaign has always been easily my favourite WW2 area of interest, not that there aren't lots of others. Loads of reasons for this, the main 2 being the interaction of land, sea and air warfare on one hand, and on the other the sheer character of those involved - bravery unlimited, determination, human error and failure, incredible opportunism......and all so evident on both sides.
Back in 1972 I tried to create a game that would deal with all this. It was played on the floor of a 20 feet square room. The naval combat was played at a strategic level on a table top map, and at a tactical level by 1/3000 miniatures using a very complex set of rules actually on the floor. Landings would involve single ships right down to individual LCAs moving across the floor. Land combat was resolved on hex-covered islands spaced out on the floor, with scales of 2 miles per hex and platoon sized units. Air combat was like the naval, on 2 levels according to what was happening. All the support elements of the game, supply, intelligence, morale, experience etc. were built in.
This game took 2 years to create - there were thousands of unit counters and every ship historically involved was bought, painted and sunk several times. My brother and I spent a six week summer holiday playing the Guadalcanal battle starting with the Aug 7th landings. 12 hours a day for six weeks, and we were lagging behind history at the end of it! A thirty minute game turn could take up to 2 hours, depending on what was happening.
The game was unplayable, except by a bunch of absolute lunatics who were prepared to give over everything to playing it as a full time job. I wish I'd known some of you guys then!
FINALLY A COMPUTER GAME HAS APPEARED THAT WILL ENABLE ME TO REALISE MY DREAM OF REFIGHTING THIS CAMPAIGN WITHOUT DRIVING MY FAMILY INSANE AND HAVING ME PUT AWAY IN A HOME.
THANKYOU MATRIX...I'VE BEEN WAITING 30 YEARS FOR YOU TO DO THIS.

Hi, You know what is really exciting. This is only the beginning.
With the advances in computer tech the horizon for what is possible have expanded beyond belief. I am slowly trying to teach myself programming. (Why I did not jump in right when I first saw 'Knights of the Desert' or the very first 'War in Russia'
I cannot explain. ) Now I have a long list of games I think I want to try to do myself. I would like to do a Regt level game covering the entire American Civil War. (I don't like games where a single counter/unit icon is a Corps) Perhaps a really grandiose disillusion would be a series covering every conflict from 1800 to 1945 using the same basic engine but with weapon/formation changes. (I strangely am not interested so much in modern conflicts)
The largest problem facing the future war gamer will be not enough time to play all the games worth playing.
How about me and you setting up a 4 game UV PBEM series?
We can find out just how much one brain can handle by being the Japanese and US in both the long May Campaign and the Historical June Campaign. (In a choice between a battle or a campaign I always choose the campaign) 1 day turns. Play till the game ends. (No quitting)

I take it this would be for stat games. Sounds intriguing...

Hi Ron I do not know what a Stat game is? Can you explain it to me.

I would like to do a Regt level game covering the entire American Civil War. (I don't like games where a single counter/unit icon is a Corps)


Have you ever tries 'American Civil War: From Sumter to Appomatox'

It's a decent game, you have to build individual regiments and assign them to divisions and Corps, which you assign commanders to and move around on a map of the US.

Very buggy game, but fun if you can find the right patches.

Hi, yes I have that game on my HD it's brigades you build.
I can never get the silly units to go where they are told. Meanwhile the AI runs all over the place. I think I have managed to finish (win) the game a half dozen times. I want to also fight the battles on a tactical map after the movement on the stratigic maps places two opposing forces in the same location.

Mogami. Stat games are basically games which are identical (static) and are played out by players to evaluate their performance. Very useful for tournaments, ladder rankings, etc. Same idea as used in bridge tournaments.

As you mentioned earlier, simulations tend to be much more bloody than their historical counterparts. Stat games can be set up with custom victory conditions which would limit this tendency, especially among the hard core history types normally interested in stat games.

A strategic level game such as this which incorporates tactical combat resolution of all engagements. ie...naval combat resolved with a decent "Fighting Steel" style engine, land combat with a decent "Close Combat" style engine, air combat with a decent "Combat Flight Simulator" style engine, sub combat with a decent "Silent Hunter" style engine etc...

I used to play "Flattop" with naval combat miniatures rules for surface combat and Squad Leader rules for land combat with a few friends before our girlfriends started getting really annoyed.

I used to also make campaigns for "Star Fleet Battles" when it first came out.

Yes....I was in a wargames club in high school. My rugby buddies used to rib me all the time until the "geek" started clotheslining them during are "Union" practices!:D

Hi, there was a program that would allow you to transfer from Pac War to Carrier Strike and back again but I was never clever enough to get it to work. But that's the idea. I think in the not to distant future their will exist sites that host strategic level games where the combat is resolved on the tactical level. (when I learn programming I am going to make one:D ) I think Napoleonic era, American Civil War or Ancient's would be excellent subjects for this kind of set up.

How the system would work

Online the host maintains a map. And tracks movements
When the required number of players had signed up the game would begin.
Each player would be given command of part of his sides army.
Each player would move their force on the large map
Each player has the tactical resolution program on their computer.
When two (or more) opposing forces encountered each other on the map the computers involved would switch to a tactical display and they would conduct the battle. Other players still on the large map would be aware a battle was taking place and they could order their force to head to it (by normal march or force marching) If they arrived while the battle was taking place they would be able to take part.
When the battle was over the game would go back to the larger map.
So whole campaigns or wars could be resolved in this manner. When a player had to go offline his force could be passed to another player or all players could set a time limit for each session and pick up where they left off.
It has always been that computers were too slow to do this kind of thing in the past but with the 1gig plus CPU speeds I don't think that will be the case in the near future.
Anytime you want to get into a battle/war of this sort you just log on till a spot is available and away you go. One player could even divided his command to allow a new player. When you halted a march to rest your troops you could go off line for the night yourself.
I wonder what the upper limit for players at one time would be but since the actual combat would take place only on the computers involved (meaning many different battles could be fought at once without impacting the host) I bet it would be quite high. And if adequate rules for cav recon were done the players might know well in advance they were going to be involved in a battle and could be online for it without having to live on their computers. (e-mails could be generated to simulate reports between commands or elements delayed of course the required amount of time to represent their being dispatched)
I don't think I have done too adequate a job describing what I am thinking of. But it is something I intend working on once I have learned the required skills.

Did you ever play Action Stations? A very detailed naval gunnery simulation from around 1990. The sense of anticipation playing 1st Guadalcanal as the US with a randomised Japanese starting position, knowing the visibility would be short range and that any second hell would be upon you was unbelievable. Can you imagine an online multiplayer version, with individual ship commanders and an admiral on each side?
I'm dreaming, but then I have been ever since UV was first thought of. Perhaps in my thirty-years-ago version mentioned at the start of this thread I could have filled the room with smoke and got a flashlight...............

I've never played pbem or any other multiplayer game, but I'm quite happy to give it a go.....not sure about 4 games at once though, not for a week or two anyway!

Hi, I think Naval combat would be another excellent area for multi players at once. I wonder how many IP's can connect at the same time before bogging the program down. (They would all have to be new fast CPU with cable Internet connections)
Woodenships and Iron men era right on to present oh boy.
Comm by ICQ/Rodger Wilco/or IM it would be hilarious.

What campaign and side?

Did you play PacWar from Grigsby - the same developer? Will this game really be that much better - in the ways that count for us? For example - consider the old SSI game "Battles of Napoleon" (BON). Has there really ever been a better napoleonics wargame - sure it had poor graphics - but you could play a realistic, historical game. Same for PacWar - a game I completely enjoyed for years. Of course I'll buy this game - because I know if its from these people - it will be good - but will it play that much better?

I'll be the US at Savo Island.......I can just see my computer with an 8 inch shell hole in the side, me slumped at the desk in a pool of blood, and the study burning and leaning increasingly over to one side....................
The good thing about Savo would be that you wouldn't need an admiral for the US side - any old fool about 30 miles away without a PC and not knowing what day of the week it was would do as Adm Crutchley.

Action Stations brings back good memories.

Originally posted by oleary111
Did you play PacWar from Grigsby - the same developer? Will this game really be that much better - in the ways that count for us? For example - consider the old SSI game "Battles of Napoleon" (BON). Has there really ever been a better napoleonics wargame - sure it had poor graphics - but you could play a realistic, historical game. Same for PacWar - a game I completely enjoyed for years. Of course I'll buy this game - because I know if its from these people - it will be good - but will it play that much better?

Many 'old' programs are still the best on their subject.
I still have BON on my hard drive must be 2 days since my last battle. This is another game where a group of us set up a campaign and traced movements on a map and then resolve the battles using the game. (but you have to hotseat) (adding or subtracting exp and morale to the units depending on prior results) the paper work filled up several notebooks and the battles sometimes took longer to set up then to fight. This is a game that if it was updated to present computer standards would do well with Grognards. (along with all the SSI Civil War battle games)(the source for my internet system idea) Of course the problem is the limited number of Grognards. You can't manufacture new Grognards with marketing. Grognards are born like that but I think they stay in the market longer then other types of gamers.
(Sports gamers stay with a program a long time too, I still find people to set up leagues using Front Page Sports baseball 1995. And I know a person who has kept a Commodore 64 running for over 10 years just for his Computer Quarterback league (I introduced him to this game back in 82-83 ) and that league has ran at least one complete season (20 teams) every year since.
These same people have no interest in Madden or anyother football game but they have yearly banquets and awards for that old dinosaur.
But they are much easier to locate then are Grognards none of my sports people have the least interest in wargames):(

Originally posted by Mogami

..... none of my sports people have the least interest in wargames):(

Same here. I like both (although it has been a while since I played a season of APBA basball) and the (few) friends that live around here like one or the other but not both. Just as well I guess - that way you don't have to decide when you get together. If its your sports friend then you play sports (usually XBOX football). If its your wargame friend then you have to decide at least which game you are going to play.

Hi, Last year I had 28 online fantasy baseball teams. This year in anticipation of UV I cut back to a mere 6. I had to go off line for an hour and a half today to play a game of FPS 95 baseball. (Saturday is league day) While the program is 7 years old we play year round and are in the 15th season. Very few of the original 'real' players are still active the teams now mostly composed of computer generated annual draft picks. My team
(Cubs) have been to the World Series 11 times winning 9.
Whenever I play everyone in the league comes over and roots for the other team:( (todays score Cubs 6 Mets 3)
I have 2 PBEM games of PacWar going at present (one just starting) but I think I will forgo starting any new ones, I don't want anything interfering with UV (where I plan on as many PBEM games as I can get)

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Last year I had 28 online fantasy baseball teams. This year in anticipation of UV I cut back to a mere 6. I had to go off line for an hour and a half today to play a game of FPS 95 baseball. (Saturday is league day) While the program is 7 years old we play year round and are in the 15th season. Very few of the original 'real' players are still active the teams now mostly composed of computer generated annual draft picks. My team
(Cubs) have been to the World Series 11 times winning 9.
Whenever I play everyone in the league comes over and roots for the other team:( (todays score Cubs 6 Mets 3)
I have 2 PBEM games of PacWar going at present (one just starting) but I think I will forgo starting any new ones, I don't want anything interfering with UV (where I plan on as many PBEM games as I can get)

You must be a free-roaming vapor to have time for all that. With my job I had trouble keeping up with 4 games of PacWar at one time. My only problem with PBEM is that if you get ahead, the other guy almost always quits, even if he starts out saying that he doesn't like it when his opponents do it to him.

kp

MOGAMI!!! Guess you won't have time to be a playtester...

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Last year I had 28 online fantasy baseball teams.

Ok for those of us who are not well versed in US sports games.....WTF is "online fantasy baseball"???? I have this mental picture of girls playing baseball dressed in leather and fishnet stockings with whips, is this right? Or is it more closer to baseball played with swords and magic??????