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8th Australian Division
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:07 pm
by Dereck
When Singapore falls and the 22nd and 27th Australian Brigades are surrendered what happens to their primary unit - the 8th Australian Division?
Will it be able to be rebuilt or will the fragments left be unable to every recombine into their primary unit again?
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:11 pm
by loricas
you can recombine even if part are destroied
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:09 am
by morganbj
Are your sure? I don't think so.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:14 am
by 51st Highland Div
No its true..i have the 8th Australian Div at Darwin in July '42 despite all units being destroyed at Singapore months before....
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:19 am
by DivePac88
The 3x ‘Bird’ battalions made up the third brigade of the 8th division I think?
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:25 am
by Montbrun
ORIGINAL: DivePac88
The 3x ‘Bird’ battalions made up the third brigade of the 8th division I think?
Yup - the 8th can be reconstituted from those 3 battalions.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:07 am
by FOW
Yes you can. There's another thread around this last week or so which got onto this subject and two of the Land Dev Team confirmed it. However.....
You have limited replacement for Oz so if you completely rebuild 8th Div it will :
1. use up all your inf squad replacements
2. take quite a long time
3. severely restrict your ability to replace combat losses in other units as you have used up the pools.
It's your descision !!!!!
[Deleted]
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:23 am
by Anonymous
[Deleted by Admins]
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:47 am
by Smeulders
ORIGINAL: FOW
Yes you can. There's another thread around this last week or so which got onto this subject and two of the Land Dev Team confirmed it. However.....
You have limited replacement for Oz so if you completely rebuild 8th Div it will :
1. use up all your inf squad replacements
2. take quite a long time
3. severely restrict your ability to replace combat losses in other units as you have used up the pools.
It's your descision !!!!!
The best replacement rate you get for the Australians is during 42', with 55 squads per month, rebuilding the 2 brigades you lost in Malaya will require 216 squads, so about 4 months in which you have no infantry squads to reinforce any other formation. Seems better to just fill out the other divisions left in Oz itself. That's not taking into account the 25 pounders and 2 pdr AT guns, which you need for just about all infantry formations from the UK/New Zealand/India/Australia/Canada
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:00 am
by Capt Henry_MatrixForum
Playing against the AI in the Ironman Scenario, I was able to get both Australian Brigades out of Singapore . At that point I thought I'd try a Sir Robin at Singapore and was able to extract both Indian Divisions, III Corps, the armored unit, and several base forces as well. I did a lot of evac between Singapore and Palembang, then sent the units overland to Oosthaven for rembarkation. As fast as PPs accumulated, I would move another unit out. The last transports out of Oosthaven did spent time dodging around Japanese carrier forces southwest of Java, but I think all the transports I lost (500 troop capacity types) were lot between Singapore and Palembang.
I agree this would pretty much never work against a human opponent.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:11 pm
by medicff
ORIGINAL: FOW
Yes you can. There's another thread around this last week or so which got onto this subject and two of the Land Dev Team confirmed it. However.....
You have limited replacement for Oz so if you completely rebuild 8th Div it will :
1. use up all your inf squad replacements
2. take quite a long time
3. severely restrict your ability to replace combat losses in other units as you have used up the pools.
It's your descision !!!!!
Good points about rebuilding units.
The only division size units that can be rebuilt from losing entire brigades/regiments are the ones that START a scenario already in detached form. Once you recombine and split again, if you lose brigade it is gone forever. But the point is made from Indian/British/Australian/CW forces is that you have extremely limited replacements to rebuild entire units.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:28 am
by Dobey455
In regards to the 55 replacement squads, don't forget that that is AIF infantry (if I'm not mistaken) and all the militia divisions in Aus use CMF Infantry squads. If the 3 othe AIF divisions (6th, 7th and 9th) have not been heavily engaged then there is no point "saving" those 55 squads per month as no other Australian unit can use them.
Of course the AIF divisions are some of the better quality allied divisions, so I can't imagine at least one of them won't be in the front and needing re-inforcement.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:11 am
by Rainer79
Don't forget all these CMF Militia squads will upgrade to the AIF type. That will make an immediate rebuild of the 8th Division far less attractive.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:12 pm
by Dobey455
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think you will EVER be able to combine the 8th Australian division.
To re-build a unit all the sub units need to have the same types of equiptment and squads right?
Well for some reason the "bird" battalions have Militia squads (CMF) while the rest of the division has AIF squads, so if I understand the re-building rules correctly this unit can nevr be reformed. Well possibly if the militia converts to the same type of AIF squad late in the war.
Gull, Lark and Sparrow force are simply the 3rd brigade of the 8th Div. broken down into battalion battlegroups and so they should be AIF troops like the rest of the division.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:46 pm
by morganbj
ORIGINAL: Dobey
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think you will EVER be able to combine the 8th Australian division.
To re-build a unit all the sub units need to have the same types of equiptment and squads right?
Well for some reason the "bird" battalions have Militia squads (CMF) while the rest of the division has AIF squads, so if I understand the re-building rules correctly this unit can nevr be reformed. Well possibly if the militia converts to the same type of AIF squad late in the war.
Gull, Lark and Sparrow force are simply the 3rd brigade of the 8th Div. broken down into battalion battlegroups and so they should be AIF troops like the rest of the division.
I didn't think about that either. That might explain why I couldn't get the 8th to combine. I thought it was because one of the "birds" was left behind near Rabaul and "disappeared" when it ran out supplies. Sometimes it takes the game several turns before it realizes that a unit is gone, at least from what I think I see. So, I just gave up on reuniting it and ended up moving the other "birds" to different destinations. I assumed that the "destroyed" indication on the OOB button meant that it couldn't be rebuilt if a sub-unit was destroyed. But, maybe it was the fact that the equipment doesn't line up correctly.
But, in retrospect, recombining it may not be a good idea anyway as some of you have said.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:12 pm
by Andy Mac
IMO I would only rebuild 8th Div as anything but rear are garriosn if
1. I had managed to get at least 150 Squads between the Bdes and Bns to Australia
2. I didnt intend to overstrain the Australian, NZ and British Army by an early atack as the other devices are important.
So I was playing possum in 42 and sitting back in Assam and not trying Akyab, if I was not trying to go overland to Buna and the Japanese were leaving PM alone then I 'may' rebuild the Div if I had a big enough cadre escape to reasseble.
If I get out less that 100 squads my most likely reaction is to send all the fragments to Sydney where they can be disbanded to the pool at no VP cost thus giving me a nice one off boost to help out other formations - I like full strength Divs for attacking with plenty of replacements - 3 full Divs with 100 replacement squads better than 4 Divs at 90% with no replacements IMO
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:14 pm
by Walloc
ORIGINAL: Grognerd
I looked at trying to get out the 22nd ad 27th brigades from Singapore against the AI.
Can't be done (safely) not enough PP's and too risky when enough PP's are available.
Not terrible realistic either (but who cares, no house rules against the AI)
I figured if it were possible against the AI, playing a human might be, but it would be harder. But alas it takes about 12 or so days to get the required 800 something PP's to change commands.
I prefer to use replacements for the other 4 or 5 militia divisions in Austrailia.
U dont need 800 PP. Just change their HQ to ABDA or Burma command. Then they only cost 90 or so each.
So with the right moves u could have them changed to ABDA/Burma on turn 1 if u so wish. Not that its needed cuz of the fact that they arent rdy to sail on turn 1. Realisticly by turn 4-5 u could have them sailing and u can certainly find 180 PP by then. If that is what u want.
Kind regards,
Rasmus
[Deleted]
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:48 pm
by Anonymous
[Deleted by Admins]
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:02 pm
by cfulbright
I note some people say you can never combine the 8th Aus Div. I've done it. I did as someone else said, changed the Bats from SW Pacific to ABDA command.
RE: 8th Australian Division
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:50 pm
by Buck Beach
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
IMO I would only rebuild 8th Div as anything but rear are garriosn if
1. I had managed to get at least 150 Squads between the Bdes and Bns to Australia
2. I didnt intend to overstrain the Australian, NZ and British Army by an early atack as the other devices are important.
So I was playing possum in 42 and sitting back in Assam and not trying Akyab, if I was not trying to go overland to Buna and the Japanese were leaving PM alone then I 'may' rebuild the Div if I had a big enough cadre escape to reasseble.
If I get out less that 100 squads my most likely reaction is to send all the fragments to Sydney where they can be disbanded to the pool at no VP cost thus giving me a nice one off boost to help out other formations - I like full strength Divs for attacking with plenty of replacements - 3 full Divs with 100 replacement squads better than 4 Divs at 90% with no replacements IMO
These are actually some pretty cool points. Already late for my current game but I will save the post for future reference.
Thanks