Matrix Games Forums

How hard would this be?


Whe building a scenario, using the new scenario builder, you have to start from scratch.

Instead of starting from nothing, would it be possible to use a saved game as a template for a scenario?

For example, if you were in turn 17 of a game, you save the file. Then, you open the scenario editor, and have the option to select that saved game as the starting point for your new scenario.
You don't have to build the scenario from scratch. The scenario editor could use the situation in the saved game as the beginning point for the scenario that you are editing.

Why is this a good idea? Because it would make Scenario creation much much easier.

Also (and this is why I like the idea) this capability would be the ULTIMATE in 3rd party battle resolution capability.

This would allow for complete control over 3rd party (miniatures) resolution for every aspect of EIA. There is currently no capability to introduce reinforcing units into an out of game battle. There is also currently no capability to resolve naval combat using a 3rd party resolution. There may be other things in the game that you might want to edit, other than individual battle results.

The scenario editor would solve this once and for all. You could have absolute control over any aspect of an ongoing game. This would combine all of the flexibility of a board game with the number crunching of a computer game.

One example. You and 2 other friends are playing a game. You are at turn 20, and another person would like to join the game. However, perhaps the AI has been playing the major power that he wants to play, and has made a real mess of things. With the scenario editor, you could make a few changes to the current situation, to allow him to join the game in progress in a situation that is a bit more tenable. You would just save the game, load it into the scenario editor. Then make the necessary changes, and start off with a "new" game which now would include the new player. Everything about the current game would be preserved except for whatever you purposefully modified.

Here is another example, Let's say that the French and English fleets engage in battle. It looks like it would make a very interesting miniatures game. It would be great to play the game on the miniatures table.
The Scenario editor would allow you to do this. All you would need to do is to save the game prior to the battle. (or even after the battle) . You play out the battle using miniatures. Then, you load the saved game file into the scenario editor, and you could edit the units that participated in the battle. You could alter the position of the fleets to account for retreats, change their force strengths, and award points to the victor. Then you save this scenario, and tart the scenario as a new game, but you are actually just taking up the old game where you left off, modified slightly for the naval battle.

Similarly, you could do the same with land warfare. This would solve the issue of reinforcements from adjacent hexes not being able to participate in battles. Becasue the scenario editor has the capability to modify every aspect of the game, you could just save the game prior to the battle, then load the saved game into the scenario editor, edit the units you want to edit (changing their strengths, retreating them as required, deducting/adding victory points for the losers/winners). Then, you continue the new scenario where you left off with the old one.

Please consider this. The ability to use saved games as templates for new scenariost would make EIA the Holy Grail of Napoleonic Miniatures campaign tools, and much more user friendly and flexible.


Given that the scenario editor is already in place, how difficult would it be to make saved games usable as templates for the scenario editor?

If you implement this, I will personally buy two more copies of EIA, and I would bet that there would be other miniatures gamers out there that would also do this.

Kai:

I don't think this would not be too difficult??? I do have it on my plate to look at reinforcement in the external combat resolution module. We have just been packed with PBEM stuff! I hope to look at this stuff around 1.09ish.

The only tricky bit that would require deviation from the normal scenario editor, is that you would need the ability to choose which phase to start the "new" scenario in.    That way, you could pick up the game in the same phase where you left off.   

Well actually not. I think all scenarios would start with setup then move to diplomacy, etc. Am I missing something?

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Well actually not. I think all scenarios would start with setup then move to diplomacy, etc. Am I missing something?

The issue is that you are pausing mid-turn to resolve a battle. You need to be able to continue at the phase where you left off.

If all new scenarios start with set up, then move to diplomacy phase, then what would have to happen is that players would have to stand still and not make any moves or actions until the turn comes to the phase where the previous action ended. (Seems like it would work.)

The request is for any saved game file - any player, any phase - to be edited and then resaved at the same point?  So for example the Austrian player's land combat phase could be edited with results of third party combat and then resaved at that point.  That file could then be passed to Austria next in sequence, etc.  In theory I understand and it could work.  The scenario editor would have to be able to import a .sav and .sav.dat file and generate a virtual(?) .ged and .tpj file for the particular player phase, and then export the results as .sav and .sav.dat for the same player phase.  This would raise another troublesome issue for pbem game security, so perhaps limit this feature to game host only.  Lots to think about, but I understand what Kai is getting at.
 
On the other hand, with the ongoing pbem game editor features (Mantis #149) and updating third party combat to include reinforcements, this may be moot? 

I can see how it might implicate some security issues, but if you are using the game for miniatures resolution, you're likely playing with local people you know (and hopefully trust.)

This feature would be very powerful. It would pretty much allow the players to decide to "tweak" any game situation they wanted.

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

The request is for any saved game file - any player, any phase - to be edited and then resaved at the same point?  So for example the Austrian player's land combat phase could be edited with results of third party combat and then resaved at that point.  That file could then be passed to Austria next in sequence, etc.  In theory I understand and it could work.  The scenario editor would have to be able to import a .sav and .sav.dat file and generate a virtual(?) .ged and .tpj file for the particular player phase, and then export the results as .sav and .sav.dat for the same player phase.  This would raise another troublesome issue for pbem game security, so perhaps limit this feature to game host only.  Lots to think about, but I understand what Kai is getting at.

On the other hand, with the ongoing pbem game editor features (Mantis #149) and updating third party combat to include reinforcements, this may be moot? 

Well, now keep in mind that I will be improving the 3rd party combat system so that reinforcing units can be updated then when the battle results are imported the changes will be implemented. I would rather give you more control/options in the 3rd part battle resolution files. This would kind of be using the scenario editor as a pause mech and I really don't know how it would work in that mode but it can be looked at...

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

The request is for any saved game file - any player, any phase - to be edited and then resaved at the same point?  So for example the Austrian player's land combat phase could be edited with results of third party combat and then resaved at that point.  That file could then be passed to Austria next in sequence, etc.  In theory I understand and it could work.  The scenario editor would have to be able to import a .sav and .sav.dat file and generate a virtual(?) .ged and .tpj file for the particular player phase, and then export the results as .sav and .sav.dat for the same player phase.  This would raise another troublesome issue for pbem game security, so perhaps limit this feature to game host only.  Lots to think about, but I understand what Kai is getting at.

On the other hand, with the ongoing pbem game editor features (Mantis #149) and updating third party combat to include reinforcements, this may be moot? 

Believe me when I say that Im watching this closely.
The changes if going to be editied each time by the editor makes a bit long winded doesnt it? and all the processes involved?

Believe me when I say that Im watching this closely.
The changes if going to be editied each time by the editor makes a bit long winded doesnt it? and all the processes involved?

Right. What Kai suggests may be possible, but it would be complicated. I think the main problem is the third party reinforcement issue, and once that's fixed you shouldn't need the scenario editor to support minatures battles? The pbem editor once implemented should only be needed infrequently by the host to correct errors, and once all bugs are resolved may not be needed much at all.

It may well be too complex. I was hoping that it would be relatively easy and would allow for seamless 3rd party resolution of both land and sea battles.

I will continue to be patient.