Matrix Games Forums

So in what ways are the two nationalities modelled differently in PC:K and PC:OWS? I mean aside from the obvious differences of weapons specifications?

To compare it to CM, in Combat Mission, the "Russians" have increased command delays depending on the date and a slightly different orders menu (i.e. the ability to launch human waves).

Are there internal calculations that guide Russian or German response times that are "better" or worse than their opponents that reflect national bias? Faster rally times, or quicker reactions, etc.?

Just curious.

The CM buys were adamant that national characteristics were unfair and decided not to design with them. Some boardgames throw them in either for chrome or because they genuinely believe they are necessary - Squad Leader comes to mind, with the Russians receiving bonuses for everything from entrenching faster to being penalized for having poor gun depression on their tanks. The first is a subjective value, the second not so much, as low turret roofs is easily quantifiable and the greater difficulty of obtaining a hull-down position on a crest line by Soviet AFVs has been noted in modern tactical manuals.

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts of the game, go to Mobius' Panzer Wars website, download all the mini rules and charts.

As I recall, Germans get bounding moves, Russians have one phase delay in orders and arty.

None of the frustrating bits of CM IMO.

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts of the game, go to Mobius' Panzer Wars website, download all the mini rules and charts.

Seems like a funny way to generate discussion on a discussion forum.

As I recall, Germans get bounding moves, Russians have one phase delay in orders and arty.

None of the frustrating bits of CM IMO.

Interesting; thanks for that. So you think command delays in CM are frustrating, but command delays in PC are not?

How come?

Are there internal calculations that guide Russian or German response times that are "better" or worse than their opponents that reflect national bias? Faster rally times, or quicker reactions, etc.?

My first sentence was in response to the above. I guess you didn't need to know that, sorry.

Yes I was frustrated in general playing SO in CM and not so in PC. But I am more of a casual game player than some people.

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Are there internal calculations that guide Russian or German response times that are "better" or worse than their opponents that reflect national bias? Faster rally times, or quicker reactions, etc.?

My first sentence was in response to the above. I guess you didn't need to know that, sorry.

Yes I was frustrated in general playing SO in CM and not so in PC. But I am more of a casual game player than some people.

SO?

Soviet? Solo Only?

The question still stands, of course. I take it by posting to a website (a link would have been helpful) you meant to say "yes" there are national differences internally. No, I don't really want to go searching through spreadsheets in hopes of finding them, sounds dreadfully dull, but a discussion of what some of those differences are would be interesting if anyone has a knowledge of them.

The Germans have an extra orders type, Bounding. The Soviets have a delay in the orders taking effect. In PCOWS this was an entire phase, in PCK it is a half phase.

Germans also have an extra type of Regroup formation. They can form wedges but Soviets cannot. Just line and column.

The offmap artillery delay is one turn longer for Soviets but they get a prep fire that can come turn 1. Germans earliest offmap can come turn 2.

Soviet contact to off map artillery from HQ units has a lower chance of success than German.

ORIGINAL: Michael Dorosh

The question still stands, of course. I take it by posting to a website (a link would have been helpful) you meant to say "yes" there are national differences internally. No, I don't really want to go searching through spreadsheets in hopes of finding them, sounds dreadfully dull, but a discussion of what some of those differences are would be interesting if anyone has a knowledge of them.

Im sure Mobius has the most knowledge of the internal National diferences. But actually, I'd much prefer to have those differences modeled by the scenario designer, rather than be fixed internally.

Rick