Matrix Games Forums

If i understand it tho its from what ppl have noticed on the board. It seems to exchange 1 type of inf like AIF 42 with AIF 43 squads u need twice the amount squads that the unit have.
It this correct?

If so, considering u get 40 AIF 43 squads per month and a full Aussie div has 324 squads.
Needing 648 squads the before the "exchange" can take place. Thats around 8/44 before an exchange could take place. Assuming u dont use a single squad for replacement purposes.
For the brits recieving 15 type 43 squads over 20 months. 300 much less than what is needed to exchange a full division. Havent looked if any squads gets in via convoys tho.
For the 44 squad types for brits, aussie and type 43 NZ seems totally out of the question to get an exchange happening. For Bde/Div types units.

I can see one possible work around for the Divs, dividing it up in the 3 parts exchanging them 1 by 1. Cant be done with NZ bde's tho. Even with 1/3 of div around 100 squads u need 200+ to exchange that one 1/3. Thats still impossible for the 44 types since replacements stop in 6/45 having given no more than 120ish squads.


Is this really intended? or possibly an unintended side effect?

Guess it might have been a bad idea to combine the NZ bde's [:D]


Kind regards,

Rasmus

Another thing to consider is that all the old devices are supposed to convert to the new one when they go into pool creating a cascade effect. I've not really seen that yet on Indian sqds but most of my smaller units have converted to Ind 42 whereas the divs some have some haven't but don't have more than a few doz sqds of either kind in pools.

You might try to upgrade some of the smaller units (the small island detachments for example) first, and then disband them in the capital cities, this way you get more squads in the pool. The downside is, of course, that you lose LCU's but most of them get pretty useless later on anyway.

ORIGINAL: Walloc

If i understand it tho its from what ppl have noticed on the board. It seems to exchange 1 type of inf like AIF 42 with AIF 43 squads u need twice the amount squads that the unit have.
It this correct?

I believe that it is a one for one swap when you upgrade squads. You need the required number of new squads in the pool and the old squads are upgraded and placed back in the pool.

However, DISABLED squads are not replaced by the same number of upgraded squads (probably to represent the reduced number of effective personnel). Hint, ensure there are no disabled squads in your LCU before you upgrade or a percentage will be gone for good.

Hope this helps.

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

You might try to upgrade some of the smaller units (the small island detachments for example) first, and then disband them in the capital cities, this way you get more squads in the pool. The downside is, of course, that you lose LCU's but most of them get pretty useless later on anyway.

Thats is an possibilty. Still u have 2 small units for the NZ in all, so for them not much of a solution. Assuming u have formed the bde's. I dont see many small brit units either less u evacuate Singapore. Indian, sure lots of smaller units for them. Its in some form possible for aussies too if u disband bde's.

Still seems odd that, lets say u've keep ur army intact and not in a huge issue with a general lack of squads. That u hafta disband perfectly fine aussie bde's just for the sake of upgrading aussies divisions. Assuming u dont have a overall lack of squads.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

ORIGINAL: Reg

I believe that it is a one for one swap when you upgrade squads. You need the required number of new squads in the pool and the old squads are upgraded and placed back in the pool.

My understanding from reading the forum and i start out in my original post by posing that question first. If u indeed need twice the amount to upgrade. Ofc if that isnt valid most of my remaining argument isnt. Still some issues with type 44 squads for some nation even with 1-1. It could be its 1-1 and then much of the "issue" is gone.
In the testing i've done so far tho not very intensive yet, it does seem to suggest u need 2-1, but since its mainly on small units and since units doest upgrade imidiatly. It could be that the pool just reaches 2-1 while the upgrade been on the way since 1-1. I in no way would say its definatly 2-1. Why i asked [:)]

However, DISABLED squads are not replaced by the same number of upgraded squads (probably to represent the reduced number of effective personnel). Hint, ensure there are no disabled squads in your LCU before you upgrade or a percentage will be gone for good.

Sure and alrdy in my plans and how i play it out. Not really the issue tho if you indeed need 2-1 for many types even if u do "perfect" upgrades.
Since there is no way to obtain em even if u only do perfect upgrades.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Another thing to consider is that all the old devices are supposed to convert to the new one when they go into pool creating a cascade effect. I've not really seen that yet on Indian sqds but most of my smaller units have converted to Ind 42 whereas the divs some have some haven't but don't have more than a few doz sqds of either kind in pools.

Thats not how i understand it to work.
Example.
Lets say u have a unit of 50 type 41 and 100 type 42 in the pool.
The unit upgrades 50 type 42, that leave 50 type 42 in the pool. Now u get the original 50 back as type 42 so u end up with 100 in the pool. End effect u have same number of type 42 in pool as when u started. U just wont "lose" any type 42 upgrading.
So as i understand it u wont see a "cascade" effect. If i understand what u mean by that.

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

Andy Mac went through the process in detail a while back and the search engine in typical fashion is no use in trying to find the post. Andy only has 9000 posts to sift through.... [:(]

However, to the best of my memory I think you only need the required number of squads in the pool to upgrade (otherwise it would be too difficult to upgrade full divisions).

The cascading effect jcjordan describes is how you can upgrade a full division with fewer squads in the pool by only upgrading one brigade at a time. After the first Brigade has been upgraded, the old squads are upgraded and put back into the pool where they are available to upgrade the second Brigade. After the second Brigade has been upgraded the old squads are upgraded and put back into the pool where they are available to upgrade the third Brigade and so on.... A cascading effect.

Andy himself suggested this scheme and said they did upgrades this way for a reason.

ORIGINAL: Reg

However, DISABLED squads are not replaced by the same number of upgraded squads (probably to represent the reduced number of effective personnel). Hint, ensure there are no disabled squads in your LCU before you upgrade or a percentage will be gone for good.

Wow! I'm grateful for you posting the info, but I'm hoping this last bit is in error. That bit of code would really stink and it would increase micro-management. I can't think of a reason to want to code it that way - it seems unrealistic.

Can anybody else confirm (or deny) that part?

ORIGINAL: Reg


Andy Mac went through the process in detail a while back and the search engine in typical fashion is no use in trying to find the post. Andy only has 9000 posts to sift through.... [:(]

However, to the best of my memory I think you only need the required number of squads in the pool to upgrade (otherwise it would be too difficult to upgrade full divisions).

The cascading effect jcjordan describes is how you can upgrade a full division with fewer squads in the pool by only upgrading one brigade at a time. After the first Brigade has been upgraded, the old squads are upgraded and put back into the pool where they are available to upgrade the second Brigade. After the second Brigade has been upgraded the old squads are upgraded and put back into the pool where they are available to upgrade the third Brigade and so on.... A cascading effect.

Andy himself suggested this scheme and said they did upgrades this way for a reason.

Hi Reg,

Yes i read those posts too and if u look in my first post.

I can see one possible work around for the Divs, dividing it up in the 3 parts exchanging them 1 by 1. Cant be done with NZ bde's tho. Even with 1/3 of div around 100 squads u need 200+ to exchange that one 1/3. Thats still impossible for the 44 types since replacements stop in 6/45 having given no more than 120ish squads.

I suggest this my self. If that i what is meant by cascading effect.
Doesnt solve the problem in some cases tho. Since u dont even uptain enough squads to convert a bde and in the case of NZ bde u cant divide the unit so not an solution there.

I have tested this the last 20 turns with 2 indian bde's. Both have 50/51 type 41 squads are located in Calcutta with replacement on. 100000+ supplies and a command HQ in the city. They havent upgraded yet and for the last 20 turns there have been 51+ type 42 squads in the pool.
Problem is that i have had more than 2 to 1 NZ inf squads in pool for a long time and some of the NZ units have upgraded from mil. Others have not, so obviously more at work.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Reg

However, DISABLED squads are not replaced by the same number of upgraded squads (probably to represent the reduced number of effective personnel). Hint, ensure there are no disabled squads in your LCU before you upgrade or a percentage will be gone for good.

Wow! I'm grateful for you posting the info, but I'm hoping this last bit is in error. That bit of code would really stink and it would increase micro-management. I can't think of a reason to want to code it that way - it seems unrealistic.

Can anybody else confirm (or deny) that part?

From what i've seen yes its correct. Dunno if i'd call it confirmed tho[;)].
Prolly arise from the fact that disabled squads only count as half the men. Yes i agree that since the new system was suppose to be all about manpower that this stinks.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

It should be 1 for 1 so you need 40 to upgrade 40 if thats not how its working its a bug.
 
For the Brits you get one off injections to help (there is a one off injection of Infantry after a load of AA Regts are converted to Inf in 44 - as historically happened)
 
NZ is focused on ME and supporting 2nd NZ Div so you dont get many

Ok thx for the answer Andy Mac,


Ill continue to monitor those bde's and see if they upgrade imidiatly after i get 2 times their squads or if they upgrade before and let ya know.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Silly question but you do have them in rest mode....

Yes. Does it make a difference?
Enlighten me!
Made no difference on the NZ units. Where some upgraded and other didnt as of yet. They'd all be in same mode.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

For device upgrades you must have 2 times the number of devices in pool than the unit currently has so if the unit currently has 50 it needs 100. Also the base must have the number of devices needed times its load cost in supplies plus 2 times supplies required. Op mode is not considered.

Ok thx James,

I assume this is the correct answer then. Excuse me if im confused.

That still leave my original questioning.
Is this really intended as it in effect blocks out some upgrades for quite a number of nations and types or delay the possible exchange until very late into the game.
Type 43 NZ and type 44 squads come to mind.

A full div split still have 110sih squads in a bde. Needing 220 squads to start the upgrade. Or in the case of the example my original post. U will need 6 months of replacements squads until u can begin upgrading for type AIF type 43. Assuming u dont use a single squad for actual replacement purposes. U almost into 1944 by then.
The Brits might be worse off but im not totally aware of the bonus squads they recieve, but they only reicieve 120 from regular replacement leaving them 100 short and thats by 45/6.

NZ 43 squads are 9 per month u'd need 160 to convert a NZ bde that cant be splitted up.
In effect since u dont have (m)any units to disband. Its effectly blocking them from upgrading until 45, assuming u dont use a single as replacement.
Yes Andy the NZ focus was in the Med, but if i understand the reasoning behind the squad system as explained by u. A new type is more a question of more/new weapons than manpower. Its not that i say that 9 squads per month is wrong. Its just the combination of the 2 rules interact in a way that seems unreasonble.

Hope its some thing that will be looked at.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Will be changed to 1 to 1 for squad type devices in patch 2.

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

For device upgrades you must have 2 times the number of devices in pool than the unit currently has so if the unit currently has 50 it needs 100. Also the base must have the number of devices needed times its load cost in supplies plus 2 times supplies required. Op mode is not considered.

BigJ,

What about this issue (true or false?). This would make a big difference in many games:

ORIGINAL: Reg

However, DISABLED squads are not replaced by the same number of upgraded squads (probably to represent the reduced number of effective personnel). Hint, ensure there are no disabled squads in your LCU before you upgrade or a percentage will be gone for good.

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Will be changed to 1 to 1 for squad type devices in patch 2.

Thx James,

Kind regards,

Rasmus