Matrix Games Forums

EDIT:

My Mod can be found here:

Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB


EDIT: Further changes to the economic model in the works as of Feb 27 2011....will update when completed.




I plan on getting started with my mod of the Grand Campaign....scenario 1.

1. In the works - permanently restricting a "fair" portion (not all) of the Kwantung Army and Kwantung Air Force....to prevent the wholesale evacuation of Manchuria.

2. More bases and higher garrison requirements in China....the Northern Chinese plain will likely see a dot base in just about every hex.

3. The addition of some dot bases in Northern Burma

4. Give the Japanese the ability to divide some the IJN Fighter Hikotai.

5. Incorporate Don's babies....

Sounds very intriguing... let us know how the project goes

And add Tennessee on the allied map ! [:)]

ORIGINAL: stuman

And add Tennessee on the allied map ! [:)]

I lobbied hard (not really) for it during design...after all how could we not have Oak Ridge on the map (well I guess it wasn't on any maps at the time, Secret City). The National Lab is only two ridges, a river and another ridge away from my house.

[:D][:D] and as I believe I said the next person who adds a base gets shot.
 
Unfortuantely for everyone who wnarted more and more bases on map it means rewriting the Ai every time you add one to account for it - so I am the one to blame for not having Tennessee on map because I banned any new bases until the game was out there in order to focus on gettinbg the AI to work

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

[:D][:D] and as I believe I said the next person who adds a base gets shot.

Unfortuantely for everyone who wnarted more and more bases on map it means rewriting the Ai every time you add one to account for it - so I am the one to blame for not having Tennessee on map because I banned any new bases until the game was out there in order to focus on gettinbg the AI to work

That's the beauty of modding ....you can script or mod scripts for any new bases you add.[;)]

Thanks Treespider , definately looking forward to it.

ORIGINAL: treespider

I plan on getting started with my mod of the Grand Campaign....scenario 1.

Update: I've actually started keying in data.

1. In the works - permanently restricting a "fair" portion (not all) of the Kwantung Army and Kwantung Air Force....to prevent the wholesale evacuation of Manchuria.

In addition to permanent restrictions, we will see:
- greater use of "local" garrison requirements,
- a modification of the Universal Manchurian Garrison Requirement,
- creative use of Withdrawals and Reinforcements
--- Note: Between 29 Jan 42 and 4 Jul 42 IGH transferred a number of units to the Kwantung Army...some of which were involved in the initial southern expansion. Notable units include:
8th Tank Regt
29th Ind Eng Regt
18th Ind Eng Regt
53rd Ind Eng Bn
3rd Tk Group
1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 12th Ind AT Co.
7th Tank Regt
3rd Ind Mtn Arty Regt
1st med Arty Regt
1st Hvy Art Regt
9th Ind Hvy Arty Bn
23rd Ind Eng Regt
140th Inf Regt
6th Tank Regt
1st Tank Regt

2. More bases and higher garrison requirements in China....the Northern Chinese plain will likely see a dot base in just about every hex.

My play experience has shown that once the initial "guerilla" units are eliminated the Japanese have a secure rear area and only need to concern themselves with maintaing the adequate numbers for loacal garrison requiremnets. In addition the limited number of bases in this area do not allow the Chinese a "fall back" position for the "guerilla" units...nor a source of supply.

By including a dot base in most of the cultivated hexes of North China as well as a dot base at each crossroad in China as a whole...and including Garrison Requirements ...as well as adding a minimal automatic daily supply allocation to those bases...the "guerillas" will then have any number of bases from which to operate.

The Japanese will certainly still be able to go where they want when they want - as in history. However once the Japanese start occupying bases off the primary lines of communication their forces will start to be stretched thin by the ever increasing garrison requirement they will incur.

Coupled with this will be increased local garrison requirements for the Chinese to simulate Chiang's Communist overwatch corps/armies, as well as regional warlord requirements.

3. The addition of some dot bases in Northern Burma

Not sure I will continue with this one - perhaps one or two dots in the middle of nowhere....

4. Give the Japanese the ability to divide some the IJN Fighter Hikotai.

No longer necessary

5. Incorporate Don's babies....

I will likely incorporate DaBigBabe's Lite --- which to my understanding is merely ship and class changes... DaWholeEnchilada involves LCU changes which is to my undertsanding a work in progress....


Other Notable Changes to be included in Treespider's Mod -

6. A wholesale reduction in the SPS of airfields.

Much of the map sees bases and dot bases with SPS's of 5 which means the airfield can be rapidly expannded to an 8. In several games so far I have seen Billiton the base between Batavia and Singkawang expanded to a 4 or 5 relatively quickly (by Feb/Mar 42) when it starts as a 0. One of the aspects of the Japanese early expansion was the importance of the existing airfields...with the current airfield and port construction rules (which are unchanged from WitP) too many of these bases can be built up too rapidly...

Three point to keep in mind -

1. Not all bases will be so affected and some bases will be affected more so than others. Example: The Marianas - will likely remain unchanged due to their historical role in supporting the B-29's

2. Offensive air missions can be launched from an AF of Size 2 or greater. Generally spaeking a size 4 or 5 is needed for most bombers to operate at peak efficiency. An SPS of 1 allows an airbase to be expanded to a Size 4....although that expansion takes significantly more resources and time then if the base started as an SPS 5.

3. The air war still seems to run a little on the "Hot" side with its tempo ...with the reduction in airfield size this mod will incorporate, there should be a corresponding drop in strike sizes and an increase in damaged aircraft and aircraft maintenance issues from operating at smaller than optimal airbases...all of which will serve to slow tempo.

7. A re-evaluation of At-Start Allied forces in the SRA and Malaya

To me one the most important parts of the campaign game is the ability of the Japanese to successully prosecute the first six months of expansion. If the Japanese run into road blocks early the success/enterntainment value of the latter half of the game comes into jeopardy...to that end I may alter some of the exp /morale values and leadership / PP values for units and leaders in this region At-Start.

Howver, two things will be incorporated which should aid in putting a governor on the Japanese Expansion. One was the aforementioned changes to the Kwantung Army...and the second -

8. A re-evaluation of the restricted status of some of the American At-Start Units

A number of these restrictions were put into place during scenario development of AE. The restrictions were implement because testers found it to be too easy for the Allies to drastically reinforce one theater over the other...and it could jeopardize the performance of the AI. As my mod will be intended primarily for the PBeM community these restrictions can be lifted and if an Ai player wishes to play the Mod they will simply have to use a modicum of common sense.

In conclusion - the mod is still several weeks away from a first draft although the data input has started....

Tree, can I ask for two things( well two now )?
1. Some permantly restricted USN F/DB/TB squadrons on the West Coast for training USN Pilots.

2. The two torpedeo firing mod from the scenaio design sub forum

Thank you. [&o]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Tree, can I ask for two things( well two now )?
1. Some permantly restricted USN F/DB/TB squadrons on the West Coast for training USN Pilots.

Probably not...

2. The two torpedeo firing mod from the scenaio design sub forum

Thank you. [&o]

More than likely ...if its in DaBabes Lite...

Its going to take a lot of research in Manchura as a lot of units were used in the PI  and replaced with militia later.
 
I wouldnt overdo garrisons better to add more guarilla units to the chinese and force them to chase them down. The reason is the rules force very heavy garrison requirements  which is not very accurate since these units had some operational freedom in their area eg to chase down guarillas 100 miles away. The historical garrisons are prob as per AE before they were increased in the first patch if you can make the Chinese more active that a return to those levels would be better.
 
The complete destruction of china would have decreased guerilla activity for a few years as there would be no "hope" nor communist/KMT support though it would become stronger and more covert over time.

Just word of caution with adding new bases....the way supply now moves in China...I think supply might not move at all if you add too many bases. 

ORIGINAL: bklooste

Its going to take a lot of research in Manchura as a lot of units were used in the PI  and replaced with militia later.

I wouldnt overdo garrisons better to add more guarilla units to the chinese and force them to chase them down. The reason is the rules force very heavy garrison requirements  which is not very accurate since these units had some operational freedom in their area eg to chase down guarillas 100 miles away. The historical garrisons are prob as per AE before they were increased in the first patch if you can make the Chinese more active that a return to those levels would be better.

The complete destruction of china would have decreased guerilla activity for a few years as there would be no "hope" nor communist/KMT support though it would become stronger and more covert over time.

I tend to agree. IJA "issues" in China were very fluid and in many areas governed by their goals. Many of the military leaders were more interested in establishing their local fiefdom than they were in any form of conquest. This is almost impossible to simulate in a game where a player is going to be more interested in territory acquisition. The point is that Japan had a lot more force to bring to bear than is historically seen as it was simply never really used.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just word of caution with adding new bases....the way supply now moves in China...I think supply might not move at all if you add too many bases. 

supply more or less doesn´t move anyway in China as bases usually don´t have 3 times their requirements. [:D]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just word of caution with adding new bases....the way supply now moves in China...I think supply might not move at all if you add too many bases. 

supply more or less doesn´t move anyway in China as bases usually don´t have 3 times their requirements. [:D]

Correct. I think Sardaukar's point is adding more bases will increase this issue and slow it down even more. Adding more bases is to Japan's benefit, and I am not sure that will be good for play balance.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just word of caution with adding new bases....the way supply now moves in China...I think supply might not move at all if you add too many bases. 

supply more or less doesn´t move anyway in China as bases usually don´t have 3 times their requirements. [:D]

Correct. I think Sardaukar's point is adding more bases will increase this issue and slow it down even more. Adding more bases is to Japan's benefit, and I am not sure that will be good for play balance.

Indeed. If supply movement between bases stays as it is, adding bunch of new bases would practically kill even the remaining supply movement in China. Plus it'd deprive Chinese units of places where they actually (even when it's really weird) can get supply..and that is non-base hexes...

ORIGINAL: bklooste

Its going to take a lot of research in Manchura as a lot of units were used in the PI  and replaced with militia later.

I have the a fair portion of the Japanese Monograph series, the first volume on Manchuria detail troop movements too and from manchuria throughout the entire war...to include such units as the 132nd Railway Station command.

I wouldnt overdo garrisons better to add more guarilla units to the chinese and force them to chase them down. The reason is the rules force very heavy garrison requirements  which is not very accurate since these units had some operational freedom in their area eg to chase down guarillas 100 miles away. The historical garrisons are prob as per AE before they were increased in the first patch if you can make the Chinese more active that a return to those levels would be better.

The complete destruction of china would have decreased guerilla activity for a few years as there would be no "hope" nor communist/KMT support though it would become stronger and more covert over time.

And IMO th complete destruction of China was an improbabliity. One thing that is difficult to represent with the AE Map and even more so in the WitP Map is the sheer vastness of China.

In addition I think players have grown too accustomed to is the ability of the Japanese to adequately garrison everything that they start with in China. They couldn't. By adding to the garrison requirements so that the Japanese cannot meet the requirements everywhere is IMO a better representation of the realities of China...and if you disagree with my approach you are certainly free to design your own mod.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Just word of caution with adding new bases....the way supply now moves in China...I think supply might not move at all if you add too many bases. 

Except in my mod all of the bases will be receiving a small allotment of automatic daily supply...[;)]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: bklooste

Its going to take a lot of research in Manchura as a lot of units were used in the PI  and replaced with militia later.

I wouldnt overdo garrisons better to add more guarilla units to the chinese and force them to chase them down. The reason is the rules force very heavy garrison requirements  which is not very accurate since these units had some operational freedom in their area eg to chase down guarillas 100 miles away. The historical garrisons are prob as per AE before they were increased in the first patch if you can make the Chinese more active that a return to those levels would be better.

The complete destruction of china would have decreased guerilla activity for a few years as there would be no "hope" nor communist/KMT support though it would become stronger and more covert over time.

I tend to agree. IJA "issues" in China were very fluid and in many areas governed by their goals. Many of the military leaders were more interested in establishing their local fiefdom than they were in any form of conquest. This is almost impossible to simulate in a game where a player is going to be more interested in territory acquisition.

And how do you dissuade that behavior? IMO by making the acquisition of the new territory more exepensive thatn it is worth.

The point is that Japan had a lot more force to bring to bear than is historically seen as it was simply never really used.

I disagree... If you look at the period from Dec 41 through the end of the war...the Japanese launched any number of offensive missions in China. In most cases they defeated the Chinese opposing them at the tip of the spear. The problem for the Japanese was that the forces they had available were insufficent to maintain the new territory occupied and the territory occupied was of no value to the Japanese...thus making it too expensive to try and maintain those positions.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: castor troy





supply more or less doesn´t move anyway in China as bases usually don´t have 3 times their requirements. [:D]

Correct. I think Sardaukar's point is adding more bases will increase this issue and slow it down even more. Adding more bases is to Japan's benefit, and I am not sure that will be good for play balance.

Indeed. If supply movement between bases stays as it is, adding bunch of new bases would practically kill even the remaining supply movement in China. Plus it'd deprive Chinese units of places where they actually (even when it's really weird) can get supply..and that is non-base hexes...

Except when all of those new bases are supply sources...