Matrix Games Forums

Today i had a discussion, with my mp opponent.
While i enjoyed our game a lot, he was not happy with our choices:

Airborne operation
30 minute game
VC:
moral off
2 min warning
all VL taken


He said that a 30 minute game is too long and that operations are boring in general.


I read some discussion about that timer issue and how to solve it. (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2113658 ).

I tried different configurations myself and can see the advantage of a 20, or 25 min game.
No need to rush, but still an urge to press the attack.
But anyway. I also appreciate the need of keeping an eye on the ammo supply.
In a 30 min game i get punished if i am too trigger happy and thats GREAT!

And operations boring? Well, they dont offer the big strategy map, thats true. But one thing they do offer:
I can finish them easily.

I never finished a GC in Multiplayer.
Everybody here of course is a nice "winner" and an even better "looser". Suuuuure! [>:]
It's all about the fun in the game and no one cares who is winning.
Strange, that i do enjoy winning more than loosing and that at least some people i play with, in the rare occasion i kick their butt, like to point out how unlucky they had been, that my hits were "impossible", that something was unfair,
connection was bad yadda yadda yadda.
Do you honestly feel like playing a campaign through, you know you have lost before half of it is finished?
It is a good thing to play against better players, because one can learn a lot.
But at some stage i would say....ok, my oponnent is way better than i am. Lets start something different and adjust the difficulty to keep it interesting for both of us.

And what about moral? A feature implemented, but no one likes it? It leads to strange results i heard.
But i guess that applies for both sides and it gives the feel that you cant totally control things in war.
Sometimes you end up with unpredictable results. Not completely out of bounds in my opinion though!

So far i would say my favourite choices are:

Some operation

Realism settings:
all unticked (I hate having them act on initiative...makes me shout at my computer)

Battle ends:
all ticked with a 30 min timer

What are your favourite settings, and why?
And i am sure that there already have been discussions about it, as close combat exists for ages.
But maybe someone has new insights because of TLD? Share them!

I only play GCs. I don't play to win, i play for the journey. I'm working on a scoring mod to help make it more competitive longer into the GC.

Other settings -

20 mins, morale on, initiative on

It is always tough fining gracious winners and losers, but that is really just the case with any game. Once you find someone, just work things out with them. They do exist.

I'm playing twin GC's with an old gaming buddy (we change sides after every campaign turn). We have evolved an attitude to gaming which is quite chivalrous. The aim of any game is to have fun, but if you have your emotions and ego tied up too closely, you can become bitter and exhausted...not much fun. With any game (especially CC!) the tide can change and results vary wildly from battle to battle. If you become all puffed up with self-adoration in one battle, it can all come crashing down in the next. You've got to be aware of this I think to get the most enjoyment from any competition.

We play 30 minute battles. This seems the right balance - enough time to try a few things. During a 30 minute battle, we often see a line probed in several different places. Once in a while, we will see a hotly contested VL change hands several times, with multiple counter-attacks. 30 minutes are just enough with all the sneaking around that's necessary! If the battle is fairly quiet, we agree to a truce quite readily.

The best thing we ever did in Close Combat was turn initiative off (we stumbled across this years ago in an earlier CC...CC5 maybe?). There was nothing more frustrating than having a whole carefully thought-out defensive line start crawling forward out of prepared positions into the open! So ridiculous. Like being the commander of a bunch of delirious, blindfolded clowns. "Sgt, get your MG team out of this safe bunker with a wide field of fire, and crawl across that mined paddock immediately!!" To counter it, I used to madly scramble through my units, re-issuing fresh defend orders. It's much more enjoyable and realistic to set up your defensive units with confidence, and give all your attention to your attacking units...safe in the knowledge that meanwhile, the AI isn't busy countermanding your orders and sending your right wing onto an express train to hell.

I play only GC's
As Concord said, the best ever thing I made in CC was turning Init. OFF:) 30min is a must, when both players are experienced (becouse there will be a perfect defense and planned assults, which usually requiers a lot of crawling...). The only "use" of lower amount of time is to balance game in favour of defending side.
Morale - with regular CCV, i didnt use that. Now, when we have retreat option its really nice. However sometimes it leads to strange tactic: take 4 units only, send 3 to slouther, you will lose ONLY 3 Vls, but will save map for the next turn. For those crazy weak german BGs sometimes its the only "resonable" tactic.
But when both sides are more less equal, I think morale and retreat fueature is a nice thing

So:
Init Off
Morale On
30min
2 min war
all VLs taken
And extremly important for german side: routed BGs RETREAT instead of being disbanded. (while making a campaign you have to change the .txt file)

My biggest concern however is that TLD GC is extremly borning (when there are 2 experienced players). German BGs are completly useless when facing  good Allied opponent who knows how to use tanks and inf on the beaches. 7,5cm AT guns cannot be mounted into buildings, INf guns also, , MGS usually have "cant see" problem, etc. Ok it is not the campaign itself, more game "settings" but right now its no fun - at least for me. Regular WaR was a "Extremly powerfull Artyllery vs extremly tough Panher" game and this TLD is now "Ambush your last 3 units far away and wait until clock is over" game.

But im makieng a new thread about this:)

Most popular so far:

GC
30 min timer
Morale on
Initiative off (reason perfectly put by Concord! [:D])
All VL taken

Just to put it right.
I found 100% of the people i played against nice and just wanted to point out the advantage of an operation.

I wanted to say it can be depressing, even for the most chivalrous one, to loose map after map.
One of my best friends gets sometimes angry enough to punish his remaining men with a global move fast order
towards my lines. From my limited CC history so far i just didnt experience a turn in the tide of war while the
campaign went on and thought congratulating your opponent after a few turns to
a well deserved victory is better than to keep on loosing during the whole campaign.
Of course, if you already know your opponent good enough and balanced things out before, or you are simply
equally good players its true that the grand campaign offers more surprises, flexibility and strategic opportunities.

Does anyone like having the timer put to an hour+ ?
The 30 min timer (my favourite as well) gives the chance of carefully probeing the lines, BUT for me it is hardly enough
to replan the assault if i find the resistance on my primary goal too heavy. And if the map doesnt offer any more action...why not agree to truce?

we truce pretty often even at 30

Timer 15min (20min preferred)

Often left with the sweet taste of wishing a few more minutes were available or the Timer just saved me.

Morale on
I'm not playing with bots.
Sometimes it can prove Tactically advantageous to take ground instead of inflicting casualties. You have to find the answer to the question posed "How to take those 3 additional VL's before enemy morale fails"

Initiative on
I'm not playing with bots
I've been caught by surprise on both sides of this ledger.  Teams left unattended for long periods will determine they should improve their positions.  I've had  bonus VL's presented to me as well as suffering additional casualties and morale failure.

2 min warning
2minutes of sweat.

all VLs taken

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I only play GCs. I don't play to win, i play for the journey. I'm working on a scoring mod to help make it more competitive longer into the GC.

Other settings -

20 mins, morale on, initiative on

It is always tough fining gracious winners and losers, but that is really just the case with any game. Once you find someone, just work things out with them. They do exist.

All I can say is I got the best oppenent out here and its going to stay that way! [&o]

He never complains (EVER!) even thou I do all the freaking time. He sent me an email after our first full day in the campaign and it contained 58 diffrent thgs I complained about, yet he still wanted to keep going and said it was no big deal because he's seen 2yr old's act far worse, amazing (now up to 219)!..[:D]

30m timer makes sense only because of the ammo percentages (no ammo gets what 30% of total, thats a joke...wish it were like no fuel which means no tanks move with my luck ever(complaint #19)!), but 20m is most practical I think if you plan to play out all 4 days and still have a life even if it still takes a year or until a new president is elected...

Initiative on sucks, but hey who wants to play at less then 100%! Plus its always fun to see a unit break out and watch how far they get before you see it. I am always amazed at the distance they cover too before meeting their doom. If I tryed to move a unit like that it wouldn't get 10meters. Plus it offers me somethg else to complain to him about! [:D]

In the end its all fun, good--bad or 219 complaints later. If you don't bleed CC somethg is wrong with you. I think some of my best moments are the times when ive been outplayed (which is about 99% of time) because it just points out how much there is still to be learned from this stupid game, ops I mean great great game...

Concord all I can say is you are a CC gaming machine. I can tell by your posts you really enjoy playing this game. Rock on!

Live long and prosper CC...

Gz...

Wow, it appears that I like to play with different settings than others.

I like 100% realism. I believe morale and intiative are the hallmark of the Close Combat game system. If I didn't like my men acting on their own or cowering under fire, then I should be playing a different game.

I play with force morale on, although I'm starting to consider that perhaps it might be better off; however, until I have played more, I will leave it on. The reason for turning it off would be to avoid gamey play, such as the play suggested by Koju and others.

I like to play 15 minutes. 30 minutes is far too long for the smaller German BG's to hold. Speaking of which, I am starting to believe that there are too many turns in one day, and that cohesion and supply do not suffer seriously enough when BG's are involved in continuous combat during a day or campaign. Hardly anyone I have spoken to uses the rest option, when in actuality, real units rest their men more often than once every campaign. As a results, units can be continuous, constant combat every day. Increased turns and 30 minute timers is too much time for the much larger Allied armies to wear the smaller German BG's down. That being said, I like to play both sides, and I am not advocating for numerous or drastic changes to the game. I am, however, looking forward to Feurer Kriegs scoring mod, which I hope will reward the German player for a stubborn defense, when there is little chance they can hold the majority of the maps. Has anyone won a GC as the Germans?

I do not think I like all VLs on with 2 minute warning. The reason being, is it feels a bit gamey, i.e., flag rushing and etc. So far, it has not been a factor in our games though so maybe it really doesn't matter if it is checked or not.

My 2 cents worth.

I should add that I also play line vs line, but perhaps the allied player should be veteran instead to increase h2h play balance.

I am, however, looking forward to Feurer Kriegs scoring mod, which I hope will reward the German player for a stubborn defense, when there is little chance they can hold the majority of the maps. Has anyone won a GC as the Germans?

Progress is being made - scores have been set, I just need to mod the maps now. I'd expect to have it out in another 2-3 weeks tops. I think you will really like how it turns out. For a rough idea, check out our AAR - Panzerlehr has been posting what the score would be with the mod and the germans would still be hanging in there even though many of the maps have been taken.

I'm looking forward to playing with the "Score Mod".. had even discussed similar changes for WaR with the balance of points moved further West.