Matrix Games Forums

I have bought this game and do like it so far, but I noticed several things that to a greater or lesser extent limit the fun I am having (some have already been mentioned in other threads):

1.) Unlike in PG, OB doesn't seem to place much emphasis in combined arms warfare. Tanks can do everything (except cross rivers), it seems. I think an army consisting exclusively of tanks would still be very efficient. I'm not sure if this is a good thing.

2.) The scenarios often seem to pose more logistical than military problems. Usually the farther victory locations are only lightly defended, but far away. The only way to secure a brilliant victory is often to absolutely ignore opposing units and march on as quickly as possible. This is, however, easily done as the enemy's units tend to run around in circles on unimportant terrain instead of counterattacking or falling back to save the still-unconquered victory locations.

3.) The AI absolutely refuses to re-take victory locations. I even made a test where I volutarily vacated a victory hex with an opposing unit directly next to it. So in the AI's turn it could have re-taken the victory location just by moving one unit one hex unopposedly. It didn't do it, instead moved the unit off to search something in the forests.

4.) Fuel and ammunition seem to be much too expensive in relation to the unit prices. For example armoured infantry carriers cost 40 resources, and it also costs 40 resources to fill them up with fuel, which is obviously ridiculous.

5.) Also ridiculous is the rule that with three adjacent enemy units the own unit cannot be rearmed or refueled, but it can receive reinforcements. It's possible to bring in, for example, new tanks but impossible to bring in fuel and ammunition?
I actually like the idea that the more enemy units are adjacent the more difficult it becomes to sustain the own unit, but the way it is done currently does not make much sense. I'd rather like to see the quantities of new fuel and ammunition being (only) gradually limited while the possibility of reinforcements should be decreased significantly. The way it is now the AI can defend some locations very well by always reinforcing the unit in question (even if it cannot be resupplied) if I don't have enough powerful units near it to ensure that it is killed in one turn.

6.) Infantry seems to out-march tanks, especially on roads. I don't think this makes sense. Actually I think infantry is often more mobile without transports than with it, because you rarely get to use the full mobility of the transports but have to regularly miss a turn for refueling. Speaking of that, there should be an option to abandon the transports. There are lots of possible situations where the player would gladly lose the transports if the infantry would just march instead of being stopped cold for a turn for want of fuel (like when a city has to be taken or there's a crippled enemy unit to be finished off).

7.) Pioneers seem to be unable to build bridges, but infantry units seem to be able to cross rivers with their transports - how do they do this?

1. to 7. are good points.
 
I second!

Hit the nail on the head...I see that the Game designer hasn't replied to this. Not much Blitzkrieg here....I should simply dump all tanks and get the sprinting infantry. also the unbelievable fact that pioneers can't build bridges for tanks...you only have to watch a documentry to see ample example of this...crazy.

The early Russian Campaign the Germans had absolute air superiority with huge numbers of Stuka dive bombers and fighter escourt...but after two brilliant victories I cant even afford a new chef...let alone a stuka...but the Russians seem to have hundreds of Strumaviks at their disposal. Fact: The Russian airforce was destroyed on the ground! This completely destroys the fun of launching lighting fast combined arms blitzkrieg. Panzer General actually did this wayyyyy better..

The game is a massive disappointment....wonder if I can get my money back?

Hello,

ORIGINAL: patrickfrickel
The early Russian Campaign the Germans had absolute air superiority with huge numbers of Stuka dive bombers and fighter escourt...but after two brilliant victories I cant even afford a new chef...let alone a stuka...but the Russians seem to have hundreds of Strumaviks at their disposal. Fact: The Russian airforce was destroyed on the ground!

The Russians have no or only very weak air units, that usually can easily be crushed. As the campaing moves on this changes as it did historically. I cannot remember there were many leave alone hundreds of any air units anywhere in the game.
Fact: You usually got a huge air superiority during Operation Barbarossa on the German side.

For some reason I have missed this interesting thread in the past, but since someone has bumped it up I’ll add in a few cents here.

“Unlike in PG, OB doesn't seem to place much emphasis in combined arms warfare.”

There are combined arms in OB, artillery gives support fire, so do fighters, etc.  However, I assume you are speaking about tanks attacking a city hex, should get a bonus for having an adjacent infantry against the same hex for example?

That is an interesting gimmick and could have a little merit.  Though with the current system in place, it may make dislodging units a little too easy?

I do remember this feature in PG III.  It was interesting there, but had its problems.  One of them being, infantry were rather over-powered.  In fact, they had one promotion which allowed them to force any battle into an automatic close assault.

Just to show how ridiculous this was, all one had to do was march a Russian infantry up to a fully strengthen King Tiger, and he could immediately kill it in one hit.  Even in OPEN FIELD!  Needless to say, some ladder pros preferred to only purchase infantry when given the choice, but now you got me straying too far off the issue.
 

“Tanks can do everything (except cross rivers), it seems.“

Tanks can’t move without fuel either.  In fact, there’s a lot of things tanks cant do, but that would take a lot of writing here.

“The AI absolutely refuses to re-take victory locations.“

I have not noticed this.  Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t.  That may be for the best, or it would be too exploitable if it always fell for the bait.

“Fuel and ammunition seem to be much too expensive in relation to the unit prices.“

Perhaps they could be toned down a bit, but you do realize there is a promotion line that gains extra fuel, and hence savings. 

“…rule that with three adjacent enemy units the own unit cannot be rearmed or refueled, but it can receive reinforcements.”

I understand this one, and you are right to question it.

“…there should be an option to abandon the transports.”

I find myself wishing the same thing in many other wargames as well.  I wouldn’t have a problem with this.

“Infantry seems to out-march tanks.”

This could be looked into and perhaps tweaked a little bit more.  However the truth of the matter is, often tanks did lag far behind infantry.  Top speed of a Tiger was what, 20Km/h?  Furthermore, when SOFT-GROUND was a problem, things really BOGGED down if you catch my meaning.

There are many cases from all nations in WWII where some tanks couldn’t make it past 2 metres in 24 hours due to slippage, etc.  In fact, the tanks at Dieppe couldn’t even get off the beaches because even the shallowest incline had rocks of a specific size that kept gravity forcing them to rock back down to the water’s edge.

Also realize, that even motor-less infantry often did get lifts and free-rides while on the move.

“…you rarely get to use the full mobility of the transports but have to regularly miss a turn for refueling.”

Wasting an entire turn only to refuel can seem a bit painful, that’s why you should always try to time this with replenishing your ammunition, and perhaps taking on re-placements at the same time.  Of course, doing a lot of wandering around off roads and in muddy weather, etc. will burn off more fuel than you want too. 

Though, if you promoted your unit to get the extra ACTION point, then moving and refueling in the same turn is no problem

“…infantry units seem to be able to cross rivers with their transports - how do they do this?”

Transports are much lighter than tanks.  Some Tigers and other heavy self-propelled artillery, etc. had to be abandoned in the West front because they were too heavy to pontoon/bridge across the network of rivers in Europe.  Jeeps and other light vehicles are a different story.

There is a reason why today’s Leopard is a fully submergible tank (using a snorkel).