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Search arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:08 pm
by Templer_12
Well maybe that issue was mentioned before.
I´m sorry but I´m still confused and get frustrated. [&:] [:@]
Here I set my catalina at Port Moresby to the patrol level search setting: Start: 270 - End: 090.
And that´s what my display shows me:
All I see is an arc between 270 and aprox 310.
Is there really more then the half of my search arc display hidden?
I need help, a lesson for dummies please!
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:14 pm
by bjfagan
I have noticed this too, but wonder if it is tied to the number of planes actually flying the search sectors.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:16 pm
by treespider
You apparently only have two planes set to search.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:16 pm
by captskillet
depends on how big a search % you have set for the sqaudron and how many active or undamaged planes plus pilots to fly them........I think it will only show the arcs for the actual # of Catalinas flying.........to have 180 degrees of coverage (270 to 90) methinks you would need more than your normal 12 plane PBY squadron............hope this helps.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:16 pm
by Blackhorse
ORIGINAL: Templer
Well maybe that issue was mentioned bevor.
I´m sorry but I´m still confused and get frustrated. [&:] [:@]
Here I set my catalina at Port Moresby to the patrol level search setting: Start: 270 - End: 090.
And that´s what my display shows me:
All I see is an arc between 270 and aprox 310.
Is there really more then the half of my search arc display hidden?
I need help, a lesson for dummies please!
How many planes in the unit? From the map it looks like you have 2 flying in the AM, and 3 in the PM.
You need 18 planes in the unit (flying!) in order to cover your entire 180-degree search arc each phase; or 9 planes flying to cover 1/2 in the AM (blue) and 1/2 in the PM.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:25 pm
by ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:28 pm
by treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
So don't worry about it then and just don't set any arc....
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:28 pm
by Templer_12
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
Me too!
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:33 pm
by ADB123
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
So don't worry about it then and just don't set any arc....
That's what I'm doing. I'm just disappointed that the Devs put in a detailed solution when I was hoping for a simple solution. But it's not a game stopper for me, and there may well be some very good programming reasons why the Devs did it this way. And I suspect that there are lots of people who will love this.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:38 pm
by treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
So don't worry about it then and just don't set any arc....
That's what I'm doing. I'm just disappointed that the Devs put in a detailed solution when I was hoping for a
simple solution. But it's not a game stopper for me, and there may well be some very good programming reasons why the Devs did it this way. And I suspect that there are lots of people who will love this.
I did not design it, but since you said simple... care to come up with the formula for when 7 planes are searching 120 degrees at 12 hexes vs 140 degrees at 11 hexes?
To me it seems much simpler to figure the odds for one aircraft in 10 degrees at a variable number of ranges ...
...rather than a variable number of aircraft for a variable number of hexes for a variable number of degrees.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:42 pm
by Templer_12
Huh, very fast replies [X(]
So here is my command display.
I use, so the way I understand it, 5 planes at all.
And I see, I´m not the only one having trouble with this (Huh, thanks god).
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:45 pm
by Charbroiled
ORIGINAL: ADB123
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
So don't worry about it then and just don't set any arc....
That's what I'm doing. I'm just disappointed that the Devs put in a detailed solution when I was hoping for a simple solution. But it's not a game stopper for me, and there may well be some very good programming reasons why the Devs did it this way. And I suspect that there are lots of people who will love this.
No offense, but you are making it more complicated by asking your pilots to search an area larger then they can search in a given day. You are asking 2 planes to search a 180 degree arc. The arc display is the pilots telling you how much of that 180 degree arc that can realistically search.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:46 pm
by Templer_12
And I see there are 5 lines - 2 blue and 3 green.
>5 planes - 5 lines ?! May I say, in this case, each single line is the "road" for a single patrol plane?
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:47 pm
by treespider
You have 5 planes set to 50 search...50% of 5 is 2.5.
2 planes search in the am and 2 planes search in the pm...the lines are simply the border of the search area...the left most green line overlays the rightmost blue.
ORIGINAL: Templer
Huh, very fast replies [X(]
So here is my command display.
I use, so the way I understand it, 5 planes at all.
And I see, I´m not the only one having trouble with this (Huh, thanks god).
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:48 pm
by Bullwinkle58
The arc displays were a huge revelation for me on how "open" my search patterns were as actually being flown. I had too many units doing very long range search. That's the way to go in some cases from some bases, but if you want general early-warning you have to decide. Or bring in more units. Cats are good for those long-range threat vectors and choke points, and the multiple, large Kingfisher units you get on CONUS west coast are good for very short range fill if you can get some of them pushed forward. (Don't recall if they're all restricted off the top of my head. Don't think so.)
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:52 pm
by ADB123
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: ADB123
ORIGINAL: treespider
So don't worry about it then and just don't set any arc....
That's what I'm doing. I'm just disappointed that the Devs put in a detailed solution when I was hoping for a
simple solution. But it's not a game stopper for me, and there may well be some very good programming reasons why the Devs did it this way. And I suspect that there are lots of people who will love this.
I did not design it, but since you said simple... care to come up with the formula for when 7 planes are searching 120 degrees at 12 hexes vs 140 degrees at 11 hexes?
To me it seems much simpler to figure the odds for one aircraft in 10 degrees at a variable number of ranges ...
...rather than a variable number of aircraft for a variable number of hexes for a variable number of degrees.
I assumed that the original search algorithm looked at whatever area was within the circle that the planes were searching, added some calculations that factored in the number of planes, weather, experience, etcetera and so on, and the decided if any of the planes were able to "spot" anything. So I assumed that any "arc-based" searching would be limited to the defined arc, and apply the same calculations, only on a smaller area.
My assumption may have been wrong. It doesn't matter to me, because I'm just not bothering with search arcs because I find them too complicated to use and they don't do what I want. But that's just me.
Thanks for the comments.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:03 pm
by Templer_12
ORIGINAL: treespider
You have 5 planes set to 50 search...50% of 5 is 2.5.
2 planes search in the am and 2 planes search in the pm...the lines are simply the border of the search area...the left most green line overlays the rightmost blue.
ORIGINAL: Templer
Huh, very fast replies [X(]
So here is my command display.
I use, so the way I understand it, 5 planes at all.
And I see, I´m not the only one having trouble with this (Huh, thanks god).
Thank you treespider.
OK. I think I begin to understand. [8|]
To be honest - I did not see the "search50" button.
So please continue with your lesson.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:24 pm
by Blackhorse
ORIGINAL: ADB123
That seems way too complicated. All I ever wanted was to have my search planes, no matter how few, search in the area that I wanted instead of a 360 degree circle. So if I have two search planes and I want them to search 180 degrees of coastline, that's what I want them to search, not a couple of 10 degree sections.
This bit about 10 degree increments is waaaaaaaaaaay too much busy work.
Sorry guys, as far as I am concerned, this is way too over-engineered.
I agree that it is something of a click-fest early on when you have a bunch of 3-plane "squadrons" to set. You'll probably find it less of a problem as you start filling out your 12+ plane PBY and other search squadrons. At that point you can generally cover any desireable arc by setting just one or two squadrons.
At start, I don't bother setting search arcs. In the PI, for example, I tend to set my B-17s to search (PBYs are busy transporting troops) w/o arcs, and they seem to detect most approaching TFs.
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:10 am
by wdolson
ORIGINAL: ADB123
I assumed that the original search algorithm looked at whatever area was within the circle that the planes were searching, added some calculations that factored in the number of planes, weather, experience, etcetera and so on, and the decided if any of the planes were able to "spot" anything. So I assumed that any "arc-based" searching would be limited to the defined arc, and apply the same calculations, only on a smaller area.
My assumption may have been wrong. It doesn't matter to me, because I'm just not bothering with search arcs because I find them too complicated to use and they don't do what I want. But that's just me.
Thanks for the comments.
The search algorithm has not changed at all since the original release. What you have now is just showing you what has been happening all along.
Bill
RE: Serch arc display. Confusing
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:13 am
by John Lansford
A 5 plane squadron can at most search only 100 degrees of arc; 50 degrees in the morning and 50 degrees in the evening, and their fatigue is going to go way up in the process since they never get any time off to rest. Even with the 12 plane squadrons I try and have them search only 90-120 degrees of arc so they can keep their fatigue levels down.