Matrix Games Forums

Hi,

Here is what I've gleaned from the manual and forum about altitude issues, which (to be honest, as a newbie) I find hugely puzzling. I thought by putting it all in writing I could either (a) enlighten others or (b) have all my errors cruelly exposed and corrected... so here goes:

Firstly: The Manual

7.2.1.9 IMPACT OF ALTITUDE SELECTION
You can set the altitude at which Missions will be flown. Higher altitudes soften the effects of
flak, but reduce bombing accuracy for level bombers. Altitude selection will further affect any
escorts or defending CAP as Fighter MVR ratings are dependent on their historical performance
throughout the Altitude spectrum. There are 5 “bands” that each represents a significant place
in an aircraft’s performance envelope. They are:

»» Low: 0-10k’
»» Medium: 10-15k’
»» Med Hi: 16-20k’
»» High: 21-30k’
»» Very Hi: 31k’-up

OK - it should probably be stated that Low is <10k, and Medium is 10-15k etc (to avoid confusion)

Fighters

Now looking at Fighters first, and their 3 main roles: CAP, Escort and Sweep

CAP is the most complicated. Essentially fighters have different manoeuvrabilities at different altitudes (which you can find out about in the database or WitPTracker). It makes sense to set your CAP altitude to give your fighters the best chance - except that it isn't so straightforward, as more altitude will also give fighters a (?strong) advantage and any incoming fighters at a higher altitude may dive down and pick yours off. Overall therefore the CAP altitude needs to be set at an appropriate balance between MVR ratings, speed and altitude, including probably the likely incoming altitude of any raid (as height=time and you won't have much of it).

Escort - ie escorting a bombing raid of one sort or another elsewhere. The only real altitude issue is to set the fighters at the same altitude as the bombers. They will work better as a group and WiTP "automates" the fact that actually the fighters will fly a bit above the bombers to give better cover.

Sweep - ie trying to take out the enemy's CAP with your fighters. The same applies as for CAP except (apparently) if you set the altitude to 100' then your fighters will perform strafing runs on enemy planes on the ground. This is a little odd because of what I think happens with bombers (see below...)


Bombers

There seem to be 4 main types of bombing approaches: Level, Dive, Skip and Torpedo

In general the altitude you set determines the ingress and egress altitude not the actual attack altitude - ie the altitude your bombers are likely to come up against any fighters and flak. Except that this doesn't always seem to be the case and the general concensus seems to be:

Level bombing - if you can, get the level bombers high. They lose accuracy but are less likely to take damage. People seem to recommend 20,000 ft for level bombers (being safer than 10,000 ft which is flak-prone). I'm told that the payload of heavy bombers offsets the inaccuracy ! (so you've got to feel a bit sorry for the people in the next village !)

Dive bombing - has had a lot of discussion. People seem to recommend not less than 10,000 ft for a dive bombing approach (because of the large amount of altitude lost in the attack run) - possibly an actual minimum of 10,000 ft or the dive bombers don't try and do level bombing instead

Skip bombing - is a high risk, high yield way of bouncing bombs into the side of ships. Historically used from 1943 by the Allied, you can get your light and medium bombers to do this by setting the altitude to 100 ft on naval attack runs (and you'll need highly experienced pilots to do it with any success)

Finally torpedo runs, set altitude for 5,000 ft or less. Here the altitude is obviously an ingress/egress altitude as (as far as I know) torpedoes weren't released from several thousand feet.


And my current questions are:
1. Does the altitude the CAP is set affect the time required to meet incoming raids (ie does it take a CAP at 18,000 ft longer to form up than one at 10,000 ?)
2. Does the altitude of the incoming raid affect the time required for the CAP to meet it ?
3. Is any of the above correct ??

Thanks
Chris

good post.

Almost all of your conclusions are 'the consensus', but i would add the following observations:

1> CAP altitude. I've tried setting my cap at 15k, and have noticed that the 'time to intercept' enemy formations at low altitude seem to take about the same time for planes on the ground to intercept. Not sure why this is so, but it has happened too often to be mere 'chance.' So i am not sure if the engine is calculating 'descent' rate, but rather is more of a 'time to change to altitude x' rate calculation.

2> Cap with Aircobras. I've seen many posts about the 'inferior' high altitude performance of the aircobras because of the engine. Some have suggested setting the altitude of the cobras at 12k to compensate, others say 'keep em low so the engagement happens in their preferred envelope'.

Ive tried both, and have not seen much difference. I also am not clear on how the engine calculates what altitude a combat takes place at.

For instance : a dive bomber approaches at 10,000 feet, with accompanying fighter escort. The dive bomber 'releases' at 2000 feet (as evidenced from the combat reports). I lost 3 dive bombers and 3 escorts.

Question - at what altitude is the engagement happening at? 10k? 2k? somewhere in between? I would think that the answer to this question is important in understanding the combat engine.

Hmmm, so what you are saying is that Betty's and Nell's have to be at 5000 feet or less in order to drop torps? I thought they could be at 10000 or 15000 feet and automatically drop down to drop torpedoes when they get close? If they have to be at 5000 feet then that is a big ouch and heavy attrition to be expected for these torpedo runs both by Flak and Cap.

Well, strictly it isn't so much what I'm saying, as what other people in the forum are saying... and I take your point, it doesn't make much sense if the altitude is the flying altitude rather than the "attack" altitude.

On the other hand, I'm guessing Flak and CAP probably were quite heavy for those torpedo runs !

Chris

Bombers take flak at their ingress altitude and at their attack altitude. For torpedo bombers, that is 200'. I believe it is 2000' for dive bombers.

Good summary and nearly everything is correct. [:)]

Just to out detail on the alt settings:
You can set coordinated strikes for 2 different targets by simply enhancing the same alt rule.

set one escort/bomber group to target 1 and (e.g.) 10k alt
set another escort/bomber group to target 2 and 11k alt

makes coordination very easy and flexible.

And my current questions are:
1. Does the altitude the CAP is set affect the time required to meet incoming raids (ie does it take a CAP at 18,000 ft longer to form up than one at 10,000 ?)
2. Does the altitude of the incoming raid affect the time required for the CAP to meet it ?
3. Is any of the above correct ??

1) Yes it does. But not really in the way you describe it. Don´t forget that the CAP is split into airborne patrol and standby/ready fighters on the ground.
So if you set CAP to, say 18k, youll have a couple of fighters on partrol at this alt, the rest is on standby either to release the patrol or to scramble after the raid
is detected. When this happens the patrols dive from their patrol alt on the bombers (thats why higher alt is oftern the better choice), giving them advantage in battle.
The standby/ready fighters scramble to the alt the raid is detected, so alt settings don´t affect these AFAIK.
AFTER the raid, the remaing airborne fighters reset to patrol on the set alt (18k)

2) Yes. It takes time to climb to the altitude, but it also depends much on how far out the raid is detected.

3) Yes, very good summary, I think that helps many people new to the game! [:)]

And in another forum MichaelM wrote:

Mission: Bombing
A/c type: DB
(1) Group altitude: 10-15K
A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack
(2) Group altitude: 16-19K
A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack
(3) Group altitude: <10
A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack
(4) Group altitude: 20+
A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack
The attacks are based on altitude flown.
If I had to do it again, I would probably let the player pick an 'attack tactic' which would allow planes to approach target at the group alt but determine the attack alt and bombing type based on the 'attack tactic'.

Diving attacks have a better chance than gliding attacks to make a hit; pilots with good NAVAL_BOMB skills have a better chance. Exit altitude is 1000-4000'.
Glide attacks have a better chance than level bombing but not as good as diving attacks to make a hit, but; again better skilled pilots have a better chance. Exit altitude is 2000-5000'.


... which also helps
Chris

The altitude of torpedo bombers doesnt seem to matter, really, as they will release their torps at 100-200 feet anyway. Torpedo bombers will often be part of a greater strike package, so the alitide of divebombers/fighters will be leading for my torpedo bombers.
&nbsp;
I happily stand corrected if my understanding of torpedo bombing is flawed.
&nbsp;

ORIGINAL: chrisol

And in another forum MichaelM wrote:

Mission: Bombing
A/c type: DB
(1) Group altitude: 10-15K
A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack
(2) Group altitude: 16-19K
A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack
(3) Group altitude: <10
A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack
(4) Group altitude: 20+
A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack
The attacks are based on altitude flown.
If I had to do it again, I would probably let the player pick an 'attack tactic' which would allow planes to approach target at the group alt but determine the attack alt and bombing type based on the 'attack tactic'.

Diving attacks have a better chance than gliding attacks to make a hit; pilots with good NAVAL_BOMB skills have a better chance. Exit altitude is 1000-4000'.
Glide attacks have a better chance than level bombing but not as good as diving attacks to make a hit, but; again better skilled pilots have a better chance. Exit altitude is 2000-5000'.


... which also helps
Chris

Just a reminder that this is how Dive Bombers work at different altitudes. Other Level Bombers won't dive bomb if you set them to 10k feet. [:D]

ORIGINAL: USS America

Just a reminder that this is how Dive Bombers work at different altitudes. Other Level Bombers won't dive bomb if you set them to 10k feet. [:D]

Ahhh... well pointed out (and I hadn't spotted that it only applies to DBs). That explains much better why it doesnt apply to torpedo bombers (set altitude is ingress and egress altitude and the pilots will drop down to send off the torpedoes automatically) or other types

Chris

Thanks for this thread.&nbsp; I've been hit or miss on my CAP altitudes.

Hey mg62,

Those shoes that Rosie the Riveter is wearing in your avatar don't look very practical! OSHA is going to get her.