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Not sure if this is bug or I'm doing something wrong or not but I've got a fragment of Lark force (IIRC that's it's name one of the Oz "bird" force units) at Gasmata that I'm trying to rescue & it's only got a few Inf & support left but when I send the US SST subs to try & get them, the load troops option is greyed out as well as docking at Gasmata. Due to IJ AI in the area, subs are the only way they're going to get home before starving/air bombardment though I can drop supplies to them using the subs to keep them going a bit longer. Am I missing something as I think I'm using the subs in the right tf mission as well as the units hq but can't figure out the greyed out buttons???

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Not sure if this is bug or I'm doing something wrong or not but I've got a fragment of Lark force (IIRC that's it's name one of the Oz "bird" force units) at Gasmata that I'm trying to rescue & it's only got a few Inf & support left but when I send the US SST subs to try & get them, the load troops option is greyed out as well as docking at Gasmata. Due to IJ AI in the area, subs are the only way they're going to get home before starving/air bombardment though I can drop supplies to them using the subs to keep them going a bit longer. Am I missing something as I think I'm using the subs in the right tf mission as well as the units hq but can't figure out the greyed out buttons???

Is your Lark fragment still Restricted to the Australian command? If so, you'll have to buy it out and change it to an Unrestricted command.

Otherwise, why not use some Flying Boats to pick up the troops?

I'll double check the hq but I think I changed it but the option to load troops is greyed out anyway on the tf so at this point hq wouldn't matter as I've not even got that far in the load troops process.
 
 My patrol a/c, limited as they are & out of range of Gasmata (operating from NE Oz), are patrolling for the IJ bombardment tfs being sent to PM or as I call it the Rabaul Express [:'(]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Not sure if this is bug or I'm doing something wrong or not but I've got a fragment of Lark force (IIRC that's it's name one of the Oz "bird" force units) at Gasmata that I'm trying to rescue & it's only got a few Inf & support left but when I send the US SST subs to try & get them, the load troops option is greyed out as well as docking at Gasmata. Due to IJ AI in the area, subs are the only way they're going to get home before starving/air bombardment though I can drop supplies to them using the subs to keep them going a bit longer. Am I missing something as I think I'm using the subs in the right tf mission as well as the units hq but can't figure out the greyed out buttons???

Are you sure subs can carry troops in reality space was very limited inside most of subs in that time? I know that there was submarine types where they did not have beds even for their own submarine crew and 3 sailors had to share same bed and sleep in shifts.

Its no way that you could fit any type of ground troops equipment like guns inside the submarine or more than few extra persons. You cant pack troops same way tighly as you pack other type of cargo. One person needs at least 1m3 space minimum and that would be very tight for weeks going sea trip inside a submarine where you only have one bathroom and no other way of getting a pee as submarine is closed space.

I think that submarine could transport supplies is build in this game becouse they wanted to simulate the fact that sometimes submarines where used to transport some emegency food and ammo suplies to groud troops.

I suggest that you go in the some museum to see it yourself in what kind of space submarines had their own crew of 30-50. You really could only fit there so insigfinicant number of troops that it is not worth to be simulated in game of this scale or there would be less space per person than traditional slave trading vessel from 17th century.

I might be wrong but I dont think they can transport troops for reasons mentioned.

As far as I know only the Nautilus and Narwhal can carry troops on the Allied side. Plus they can't have heavy weapons with them, something which Lark Battalion has.

I converted the Argonaught and Narwal to SSTs, specifically to be able to load an Australian Commando Company. The combined troops capacity of those two subs should be enough. Alas, I couldn't get the Commandos to load. (Yes, non-restricted HQ).

EDIT: Wait....maybe Sub Transport only works in Strategic Move Mode, like an AK transport? That would explain why my Commandos wouldn't load.

The problem right now is that the button to even get into the load troops is greyed out so that's what I'm trying to figure out if there's something wrong or not. Am I using them wrong since I'm trying in essence to evac a unit even though I control that base? Does it only work if I load them from the starting base to transport them to invade/raid an enemy base? I formed the sub transport tf in Brisbane & let it sail to Gasmata then when it arrives at Gasmata the buttons on the tf screen to load troops or dock etc are all greyed out. Since it wasn't working I've just been using the tf to take supplies there hoping I could figure something else out about why.
 
Historically the US did use them to transport some troops (USMC Raider batt to Makin) but not much more than that, operationally speaking. There are 3 US subs that can convert - Argonaut, Nautilus & Narwhal.

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

The problem right now is that the button to even get into the load troops is greyed out so that's what I'm trying to figure out if there's something wrong or not. Am I using them wrong since I'm trying in essence to evac a unit even though I control that base? Does it only work if I load them from the starting base to transport them to invade/raid an enemy base? I formed the sub transport tf in Brisbane & let it sail to Gasmata then when it arrives at Gasmata the buttons on the tf screen to load troops or dock etc are all greyed out. Since it wasn't working I've just been using the tf to take supplies there hoping I could figure something else out about why.

Historically the US did use them to transport some troops (USMC Raider batt to Makin) but not much more than that, operationally speaking. There are 3 US subs that can convert - Argonaut, Nautilus & Narwhal.

Ability of subs to transport units has been intentionally neutered in AE. It is true that one such mission with Marine Raiders did occur, but players were extensively overusing the ability to move large formations hither and yon. So it got castrated.

Transport subs can load and transport paratroop units. Yeah, I know, paratroops. But we do not have a commando unit designation. So paratroops it is.

Also, the ability of subs to load anything has been curtailed. Only a few per day, no more than four at the biggest ports, and only half that if the enemy has air superiority. Intention was to crack down hard on the withdrawal of unit fragments by submarine for later regeneration.

Ok thanks Don, guess now I'll just let them rot on the vine until I can get some AS over Rabaul area to get a AK type in there. I new I couldn't do it w/ regular subs but figured the transport subs could. So this would also be for the IJ transport subs as well making all just good for supply runs to cutoff units?
 
Can't we just allow this one exception to the rule, it's one of the bird forces after all [&:][:'(]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

Ok thanks Don, guess now I'll just let them rot on the vine until I can get some AS over Rabaul area to get a AK type in there. I new I couldn't do it w/ regular subs but figured the transport subs could. So this would also be for the IJ transport subs as well making all just good for supply runs to cutoff units?

Can't we just allow this one exception to the rule, it's one of the bird forces after all [&:][:'(]

Perhaps the Gods of Patch 3 will provide a Commando unit type. I hear the Gods like the sacrifice of virgins...

Why castrate the capabiliities of the game? I don't understand why you don't come up with a mechanism to penalize people who abuse things. In RL there were costs associated with various activities which is why they were not employed. Why not allow us to do anything we want in the game based on what was possible, but penalize with victory points, political points, supplies, fuel, dollars, whatever. That is what happened in RL. If you want to shoot all your torpedos at a ship, do so, but it will cost you your sub commander. This is what happened in real life.

If people are abusing sub transports then put a cost to it, make it painful from a victory point perspective. Why short circuit the game?

No one likes a neutered game. [:-]

Don, thanks for explaining the "why"s of the decision - and how you guys adjusted things. I never knew that we would be allowed to use sub transport with paratroopers (admittedly, it's not something I would have thought to try - from airborne to sub carried!).

I will have to say that it removes just a little bit of the immersion factor for me, as I have always tried to do what the US did in the war - evacuate the nurses and mechanics out of the PI in any manner possible. I'm not griping that the game is broke, just explaining that I like to feel like I am showing some humanity in the way I deal with my digital forces... now I have to choose between turning them into sharkbait or leaving them to the tender mercies of Emporer Chez' troops!

That being said, I can understand why it was done and will learn to live with it.

leaving them to the tender mercies of Emporer Chez' troops!

Not to worry, I'm sure my troops will take very good of those nurses for ya...

Chez

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Perhaps the Gods of Patch 3 will provide a Commando unit type. I hear the Gods like the sacrifice of virgins...

Why don't GOD provide us SPEC troop type that would include both Commando and airborne troops? [X(][;)]

ORIGINAL: bretg80

Why castrate the capabiliities of the game? I don't understand why you don't come up with a mechanism to penalize people who abuse things. In RL there were costs associated with various activities which is why they were not employed. Why not allow us to do anything we want in the game based on what was possible, but penalize with victory points, political points, supplies, fuel, dollars, whatever. That is what happened in RL. If you want to shoot all your torpedos at a ship, do so, but it will cost you your sub commander. This is what happened in real life.

If people are abusing sub transports then put a cost to it, make it painful from a victory point perspective. Why short circuit the game?

No one likes a neutered game. [:-]

Submarines are not designed for transport of human cargo or troops they were designed to hunt down ships. It was not historically significant that they used submarines as troop’s transports and game of this scale it is not purpose to allow something that was very insignificant. Saving 10 men from island is not historically so important or meaningful feature that it should justify the feature that allows players to use everyday troop’s transportations and replacement transportations trough submarines.

At least game allows us to use submarines to transport emergency supplies for troops. This they did more on pacific war but mostly only out from pure desperation rather than anything else when they had no other options left. You could think that submarines evacuate wounded and important persons while they do supply transport missions but it was not so important feature that it should be simulated in game of this scale.

So I highly understand why DEV's made decicion to take away feature that allowed something that they did not do for multiple reasons.

One of the the DEV's explained they neutered the sub transport capability after a player landed near a DIVISION of marines from all his massed subs onto a single target (talk about getting creative with exploits).

It took some time getting used to in AE, but now I can evacuate my troops using massed patrols just as easy and just as fast.

I've managed to evacuate enough of the Cebu and 100th British BF units from their original base by sub so that when the parent fragment was captured, the unit was eventually rebuilt.  The Cebu unit was hit or miss for several weeks; some days I could load onto a sub, and some days I could not.  There were a handful of support squads of the 100th BF that I never could load onto a sub; I suppose that was due to the heavy air cover the AI had over Beaufort by then.