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Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:49 am
by Zigurat666
Just played a turn where multiple units of dauntless were finding (via search) a convoy I had parked over an island. The scrolling progress doesnt say they were hit or anything as the turn plays through but after the turns done The ships are listed as sunk sunk ships display by 500lb bombs [:@]
Is this tactic considered gamey? I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP, the direction from which they came is not shown and there doesnt seem to be a way to defend against this.
Has anybody made a house rule to limit this perhaps by setting combat aircraft to no more than 10-20% search?
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:51 am
by wwengr
Do you have Fog of War (FOW) turned on? Sometimes combat reports are very inaccurate.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:55 am
by Zigurat666
Well I,m the jap and wether or not it said they were just looking or dropping bombs,there is no doubt there were two undamaged transports and during their search well... like Mr Magic says "Presto-chango!! now I have none...
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:00 am
by cantona2
Not at all gamey. Consider the spotted ships targets of opportunity. The Dauntlesses were bombed up, spotted a ship, swooped down to get an id and decided to drop a bomb on it. Quite plausible I think. ASW efforts in ww2 were done like this, fly in your patrol zone, if you spot a sub zero in on it and kill it. No doubt enemy ships spotted were also attacked. Chance of hit is I think reduced vs normal naval attack and sometimes you even get strikes on spotted CV's, well an extremely rare occurance that has only happened once in my years of Witp
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:08 am
by Zigurat666
Then if its not a questionable tactic,how in game terms are you supposed to defend against this. I guess my Zero's saw them but decided that since they were just looking around that they were,nt worth the trouble I guess[8|]
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:11 am
by CapAndGown
I would say you were unlucky. CAP can and does shoot down search planes, though that seems to be toned down since WitP.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:16 am
by Vladd
CAP does work against searches, although combat animations are never shown. If you can place a large CAP over your TF, then when you check the aircraft losses screen next turn you will often see kills. Small, one-aircraft elements sneaking up on your forces will always be hard to stop completely though.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:16 am
by Andy Mac
CAP can and does intercept these missions but a single plane is harder than a raid.
Whe totally outmatched its soemtimes the only way to slip through dsome strike aircraft.
IMO not gamey just remember when facing Hellcat Caps later in the war and you need to get a few Mavis or Betties through
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:22 am
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Zigurat666
Just played a turn where multiple units of dauntless were finding (via search) a convoy I had parked over an island. The scrolling progress doesnt say they were hit or anything as the turn plays through but after the turns done The ships are listed as sunk sunk ships display by 500lb bombs [:@]
Is this tactic considered gamey? I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP, the direction from which they came is not shown and there doesnt seem to be a way to defend against this.
Has anybody made a house rule to limit this perhaps by setting combat aircraft to no more than 10-20% search?
nav search with divebombers in AE seem to result in a hell a lot of ships sunk, if you have enough bombers on nav search, you don´t need a nav strike to sink some merchants. Am experiencing this against my PBEM opponent, when 95% of the ships in range of KB actually got sunk by nav search...
my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:27 am
by Cavalry Corp
Try using high exp NS with long range like a Nell
In my previous WITP game several ships with a huge amount of CAP were hit by these lone rangers who otherwise would not have got through - fair enough I suppose.
Cav
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:51 am
by Rainer79
ORIGINAL: castor troy
my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
To answer your question, my typical nav search settings are 20%. I never went higher than 30% and that was when I had to wade through your sub infestation off the Australian coast.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:53 am
by cantona2
ORIGINAL: Zigurat666
Then if its not a questionable tactic,how in game terms are you supposed to defend against this. I guess my Zero's saw them but decided that since they were just looking around that they were,nt worth the trouble I guess[8|]
You sometimes get the message in blue text that search plane has been destroyed by CAP
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:54 am
by xj900uk
It can happen in real life.
At the start of the battle of Santa Cruz (Oct '42) a couple of SBD's on search from the Enterprise came across the IJN carrier Zuiho and dropped a pair of 500-pounder bombs on the aft end of its flight deck, rendering it incapable of retrieving any aircraft and effectively knocking it out of the battle.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:00 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Rainer79
ORIGINAL: castor troy
my experience so far is that nav search is VERY effective, don´t know about the nav search settings of my opponent though.
To answer your question, my typical nav search settings are 20%. I never went higher than 30% and that was when I had to wade through your sub infestation off the Australian coast.
which is what I´ve thought as it would be quite bold to have most of the dbs on nav search when you try tried to hunt down my carriers. [:D] I would call nav search too effective then. Far too effective. All my transports near the North Australian coast and every single AK that was near KB later on got sunk from nav search only. There were even some nav strikes but those went in against ships that were already dead from hits during the search phase.
boy, far too effective when 100% of the ships are spotted and 90% went down immedietely after taking multiple hits from nav search.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:07 pm
by John Lansford
I've seen reports of ships attacked by my DB's on naval search but didn't know if it was FOW or reality. Sometimes I'd get airstrikes launched against these sightings and sometimes I wouldn't, even if it was just single ship sightings. The # of times I've seen "patrol planes shot down by CAP" appear to be few and far between though.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:13 pm
by xj900uk
I've even had British search planes from Singapore bombing dutch subs...
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:23 pm
by khyberbill
I mean, searches arent intercepted by my CAP
I have had many search planes shot down by CAP. The CV divebomber is also the search plane for US CV's. Early in the war they have one squadron dedicated to search.
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:40 am
by xj900uk
Hence the old working title 'VS' - the dive bombers were originally there for scouting/intelligence/recce ahead of the 'grand fleet'. Of course, nobody failed to realise at the time other than a few far-sighted officers on Yamamoto's staff that carriers were now becoming the capital ships of WWII...
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:30 pm
by Feinder
Yes, CAP does intercept search planes.
Yes, plenty of search planes get thru (hense your frustration).
Historically, yes, they did arm the VS-squadrons (divebombers on CVs) with a 500# bomb. The intent was that, if the DB found an enemy carrier, it would radio it's position. The DB would then make it's attack, hopefully damaging the flight deck of the CV, thus prohibiting a return strike by the enemy CV (all the while, the alpha-strike from the Allied carrier was on it's way).
Do there seem to be quite a few hits that you can't do anything about?
Well, that's the debate...
-F-
RE: Using naval search for combat purposes
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:56 pm
by jb123
I'm super frustrated trying to hit a CA TF hanging around off Koepang with about 40 A-24s carrying 1000 lbs. Several nav attack strikes with no hits. Next turn a PBY hit a CA with a torp, so I set my a-24s to nav search and got a couple hits over the course of the next turn.