Matrix Games Forums

Anybody got any good archaeological links to this find?

You mean this?

Fifty-one decapitated skeletons found in a burial pit in Dorset were those of Scandinavian Vikings, scientists say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 563377.stm

Interesting read,

Good thing the Anglo Saxons stripped the Normans of any valuables before the execution ‘n burial, or the archeologist would be sidetracked trying to value the spoils for auction houses.

I think its the Dig at Thetford,he means.
 
http://www.londonwired.co.uk/articles.php/44291-Dig-may-find-signs-of-Viking-town-in-Thetford
 
 
But then again we have so many digs going on here its hard to keep up with them.

Yep...

Thanks for the link.

Both the links are good reading.

We don't get these kind of finds in NA.[:D]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

Interesting read,

Good thing the Anglo Saxons stripped the Normans of any valuables before the execution ‘n burial, or the archeologist would be sidetracked trying to value the spoils for auction houses.

The Normans were a few hundred years later than the vikings and from a different part of Europe[8D][:)] Also all buried antique items of value are subject to the 'treasure trove' laws and cannot be sold on the open market.

Very interesting. I love this kinda stuff.

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

You mean this?

Fifty-one decapitated skeletons found in a burial pit in Dorset were those of Scandinavian Vikings, scientists say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 563377.stm

Seems more like hostages that didn't get ransomed.
All males of fighting age?
Would've had to have been a pretty good sized action in that area to have captured that many Norsemen.
Who knows though, probably a lot of small actions took place in England during that time period.
I'm sure almost all were undocumented, since most people were illiterate at that time.

A very interesting era the Dark Ages, ie; the rise of Western Civilization.

The Normans were a few hundred years later than the vikings and from a different part of Europe Als

The Duchy of Normandy was founded in the early 10th century actually, after the first phase of viking incursions.

ORIGINAL: Halsey



We don't get these kind of finds in NA.[:D]

Thats not strictly true.There is a Viking settelment in L'Anse Aux Meadows,it has been postulated that this was "Vinland" founded by Leif Erikson around 1003.

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Seems more like hostages that didn't get ransomed.
All males of fighting age?

German mags quoted some historians who suspect that they were prisoners (of war) who got publicly executed as revenge for their continuous raids/invasions. So the anglo-saxons might just have satisfied their thirst for revenge on whatever viking/norman was available, because it seems like all of them had been beheaded.

ORIGINAL: andym

ORIGINAL: Halsey

We don't get these kind of finds in NA.[:D]

Thats not strictly true.There is a Viking settelment in L'Anse Aux Meadows,it has been postulated that this was "Vinland" founded by Leif Erikson around 1003.

I wanted to point out the same, I just couldn't remember the name of the location anymore. Thanks!
The Vikings made it to Baffin Island and Labrador, but then they founded that settlement on the Northern tip of Newfoundland.
Quite an impressive achievement, if you think about the fact that they did it 500 years before Columbus and what kind of rough ships they had been using for the voyage.

Interesting read,

Good thing the Anglo Saxons stripped the Normans of any valuables before the execution ‘n burial, or the archeologist would be sidetracked trying to value the spoils for auction houses.

Could you elaborate on that comment?

ORIGINAL: andym

ORIGINAL: Halsey



We don't get these kind of finds in NA.[:D]

Thats not strictly true.There is a Viking settelment in L'Anse Aux Meadows,it has been postulated that this was "Vinland" founded by Leif Erikson around 1003.

And there is a saga in 'Fire and Axe' for settlement of that place. Played it last Sunday.

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Seems more like hostages that didn't get ransomed.
All males of fighting age?

German mags quoted some historians who suspect that they were prisoners (of war) who got publicly executed as revenge for their continuous raids/invasions. So the anglo-saxons might just have satisfied their thirst for revenge on whatever viking/norman was available, because it seems like all of them had been beheaded.

ORIGINAL: andym

ORIGINAL: Halsey

We don't get these kind of finds in NA.[:D]

Thats not strictly true.There is a Viking settelment in L'Anse Aux Meadows,it has been postulated that this was "Vinland" founded by Leif Erikson around 1003.

I wanted to point out the same, I just couldn't remember the name of the location anymore. Thanks!
The Vikings made it to Baffin Island and Labrador, but then they founded that settlement on the Northern tip of Newfoundland.
Quite an impressive achievement, if you think about the fact that they did it 500 years before Columbus and what kind of rough ships they had been using for the voyage.

Thanks for the extra information, but I am always leary of assumptions made by arcaeologists.
I prefer thte straight up data from the find, and any other documented data from the area.

Yep, I knew about the settlement in NA.
It didn't last more than a generation, or two.[;)]

I was refering more to the fact of premedieval warfare sights and burials than colonization attempts made by Norsemen.
Now South America, after the Spaniards arrived, is a different story.[;)]

ORIGINAL: Hokum

The Normans were a few hundred years later than the vikings and from a different part of Europe Als

The Duchy of Normandy was founded in the early 10th century actually, after the first phase of viking incursions.

Duchy of Normandy

Ok. Let's rephrase. The Normans in Britain were not until 1066+. The first Viking raids on Britain were circa 790. ~Mind you William was of Viking stock anyway so maybe not that much difference between the Normans and the Norsemen. Maybe Normans was a typo?

ORIGINAL: watchtower

Ok. Let's rephrase. The Normans in Britain were not until 1066+. The first Viking raids on Britain were circa 790. ~Mind you William was of Viking stock anyway so maybe not that much difference between the Normans and the Norsemen. Maybe Normans was a typo?

As I understand it, "Normans" is indeed a derivative form of "Norsemen" or "Northmen". I'd guess it was the Frankish/Gaulish pronunciation for them(?).

Normans WERE Norsemen.King Charles(The Simple)gifted lands in france to Rollo The Ganger,a Viking.He eventually styled himself as King.The idea behind this was Charles hoped that by giving them land,it would put a stop to the Viking raids on France.As the Normans practised Primogeniture,this caused the younger sons  to go looking for their own lands.[font=arial]In 1035, [/font][font=arial]Robert the Devil[/font][font=arial]. fifth Duke of Normandy, died while on a [/font][font=arial]pilgrimage[/font][font=arial] to Jerusalem. Robert was a direct descendant of [/font][font=arial]Rollo the Ganger[/font][font=arial]. Traditionally, the duke's eldest son became the next leader. In Robert's case this proved a problem as he had not produced any sons in marriage. However, he did have an illegitimate son called [/font][font=arial]William[/font][font=arial]. Leading Normans decided that William, who was only seven years old at the time, was to become the new Duke of Normandy.Normandy comes from a corruption of "Northmannia", the land of the Northmen.[/font]

ORIGINAL: martok

As I understand it, "Normans" is indeed a derivative form of "Norsemen" or "Northmen". I'd guess it was the Frankish/Gaulish pronunciation for them(?).

The term "Norman" is the genus (umm right english term? [:)]) designation that describes 2 groups:

1) North-Teutons ("Nordgermanen") who undertook raids towards the south (even into Italy, afaik), and

2) romanized Normans who spread from a region in Northern France (Normandy - coastal areas, as the rest of France was populated by the Gauls).

In mid-age, the term Normans was then used as synonym for all ethnic groups from Skandinavia. Another term used was "pagani" (pagan) or "piratae" (pirates). Franconian annals mention a land Normannia, which doesn't refer to Norway, but to Denmark.

Around 800 A.D., the Franconians called the Tribes, which had settled in a large strip from North-Germany to North-Scandinavia, "Nordmani". To the Franconians, the Normans were the northernmost populace they knew.
It's hard to distinguish between Vikings, Normans and say Danish raiders, as even Normans undertook raids on Scandinavian "empires" or "countries", which of course weren't real coherent countries or kingdoms like those that developed later on.

The vast majority of the Normans used to do mixed farming, but some of them were able and experienced pirates/raiders. The old Nordic term "viking" didn't just describe North-Germanic raiders, but also Western-slavonian and Estonian raiders, and the term may have also been widely used when referring to any Nordic or Norman pirate raider in mid-age literature, later on.

Still, the Normans were not a cohesive ethnic group, but a bunch of several groups that even waged war against each other.
In the 12th century, the Normans controlled England (except for Wales) up North to a line from Carlisle to Newcastle Upon Tyne - Ashington, the entire Normandy, all of South Italy (up to Sabaudia - cough, Mussolini's model city), including Sicily.
In the 9th century, they had landed in Frisia (North German coast, probably the Frisian Isles too), the Southern coast of Spain, and North Africa (Morocco). Some old Roman sources stated that they even used Eastern European stream courses to get to the Eastern Mediterranean (~ late 3rd century afaik).

Whatever, I learned in school that the era of the "Vikings" is usually set from 793 A.D. (raid on Lindisfarne, England) to 1066, even though their raids and wars had petered out a couple of years earlier. A few smaller raids then had been undertaken until 1209, against the Isle of Man, Dublin and the Orkneys.