Matrix Games Forums

Hi,
I've just bought the Barbarossa game. I'm really confused by the fact that you don't allow the 88mm anti aircraft guns to attack ground targets. It is a well know historical fact that the Russian Tanks (T34/KV1) where WAY superior to the german tanks (mk 2/3/4) and that the 37mm anti tank gun was useless that in many circumstances the only weapon that could take out these tanks was the 88mm.

The german army prided itself on flexible and intergated arms and could call on these weapons to take on tanks.
This was most notable in North Africa where 88mm where responsible for most of the tank kills. (Heaven forbid that a North African Campaign doesn't allow the 88mm to attack tanks!)

Not only that but the 88mm could be used without uncoupling from its transport and could fire 15 rounds per minute giving it devastating power over 2000m.

This makes the game play very unbalanced as we have mk2/3/4 taking on T34 and getting their butts kicked.

However when the germans did take on the Russion their superior communication (Russians did not have radios but flags) they where able to surround the T34 and take them out from the weak back armour. So to be historically accurate the game should reflect the fact that when 2 or more German tanks gang up on a T34 the weighting should be different in much the same way the Sherman took on a Tiger tank in France.

One more aspect, the Germans supprior training and flexible tactics easily contered the superior numbers and the excellent T34 but this is not reflected in the early stages of the war. The Russians learnt later on how to use their tanks in massed formations (1943 onwards).

This makes achieving the massive victories that Germans achieve early on in the war impossible and very frustrating.

Am I mission something that I don't know about or is there a lack of historical knowledge.

Hello,

yes the 88 gun was used against tanks as other AA guns were,too. We gave the 88 a rather high value for conflicts with tanks.

In Operation Barbarossa no AA gun can be activly used to attack any ground force. We wanted to emphasise the air battle nature of the AA guns this way. So this is rather a general question if those weapons should be able to take part in ground fights.

I don't think that you as the game designer of a historical strategy can decide when and where you stick to the facts. Your meddling in the actual combined Armed strategy you have ruined the game. In addition the aweful interface and Terrible AI are the cherry on the top. I have requested refund or at the very least a swop for a "real" historical game.
Ps thanks for replying to the post.
Patrick

Hello,

ORIGINAL: patrickfrickel

I don't think that you as the game designer of a historical strategy can decide when and where you stick to the facts.

I have to contradict there. A game designer has every right to make a game system he considers adequate just as the customers have the right to pass on the game or buy it.

E.g. when it come to historical things you find clitches in many games. You like e.g. Strategic Command ? Its not very historical though. Some features are even ridiculious if you think about them like artillery firing over 100 km in WaW,but still its a good game (you cannot attack with AA guns there either btw.). I could add to the list features and games but the point is made i think.

Sorry if the game doesn't work for you, but i do not consider it being inaccurate in a historical sense when compared to many other titles. In fact we spent a lot time in research the OOBs at the beginning of the scenarios, the length of the battles in days and the weapon systems. Still Operation Barbarossa is more beer & pretzels than a simulation like e.g. Pazific Admiral.

I'm really confused by the fact that you don't allow the 88mm anti aircraft guns to attack ground targets.

I am surprised then you didn't notice some other issues that are not quite "realistic" as you put it.  There is some Axis artillery that should in fact bombard an extra hex in distance even still.  This was scaled down for game-balancing, or the allies could have too much of a disadvantage to an expert player.

On the other hand, OB removes some of the UNREALISTIC issues in PG, like the unlimited resupply issue.  So you take some, and lose some.  As mentioned, all games are an abstraction.