Matrix Games Forums

"I'm really at my wits end regarding the airstrike co-ordination bullshit. It seems to be mission impossible to get any sort of worthwhile escort to arrive at the same time as the bombers".

I have tried everything that has been suggested: Fighters at same Alt as bombers (even though that puts them at a huge disadvantage against CAP), limiting the range to non-extended, high morale, high inspiration pilots/leaders, more aviation support than is needed at a base, Air HQ at a base....nothing seems to work.

I'm sorry but an escorted strike was not beyond the IJN in 1944, no matter how inept their pilots/leaders.

ORIGINAL: Miller
I'm sorry but an escorted strike was not beyond the IJN in 1944, no matter how inept their pilots/leaders.

I agree. It's common sense... Either you fly (er, the escort pilots) or you face the firing squad... Simple as that...

I've had some issues too Miller. One thing I have noticed is that if you have two units at the same base of differing HQ's, that doesn't help. I've made sure the units are under the same command now and have noticed I'm getting better results. I also experiment in China, little chance of getting your butt handed to you if it doesn't work out, and you can tweak things to see what happens. Hope this may help, and I have empathy for your frustrations.

Whats the average experience your pilots are fighing with?

(not A2A or defensive)

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Whats the average experience your pilots are fighing with?

(not A2A or defensive)

Most are around 50. As SqzMyLemon suggested I may try changing all the units at a base to the same HQ, although I doubt that will help unless the parent HQ is actually at the base..........

Miler, I have had good luck only when the several HQ are all targeting the far off base to be attacked.. one attack, trust me I share your pain, actually coordinated multiple groups! WOW, it was awesome seeing hundreds of allied planes coordinate.. I am in feb 44 scen 2 pbem and this issue can turn around for you...
the Japs run the same in game rutines, and they get coordination, so its possible..
My problem is not the one, its the many! When I try to hit five to ten bases to suppress them... there usually is only a handfull of fighters in the area.. in my game at this point, so its hard and I don't want to set the hq to differing bases... so when I am scattering the effort massed coordination goes away.. I revert to sweeps ... and just tipped over my 38's to the point they are taking on supperior numbers and WINNING, I thought the day would never come, and I am sure my oponent has some nasty suprises when I start bombing Japan.. BUT regarding the coordination issue, try attacking one base and setting the corp and higher lever HQ's that the bases and the air units report to, having the target you want to hit and see after a few days.. weeks ..how much better things fly... In my game, and thats really all I can go on, It did not take long... one days I was pulling out my hair as my fighters would not fly.. and my bombers would hit in small packets and get chewed up, then I switched and almost immediately.. a few days my first big wing hit!!! good luck

Most are around 50.

My experience has been that as both the bomber crews and the escorts gain exp then 2 wondrous things happen; sweeps go in first and bombers are escorted. High 50's or low 60's in the exp column seem to make it work for me. In a recent 4 day battle over Palembang, my Corsairs and Hellcats consistently swept the skies before the Helldivers etc arrived with escorts and sunk numerous tankers/oilers. Early in the same game, when exp was low, the opposite consistently occurred.

Strike Coordination?  REALLY.  Is that possible...
 
(Concur Miller)

Has anyone else tried this?  I think it works well but you can't do it for Naval Strikes.
What I do is assign a target hex for the fighter escorts.  Of course it's the same hex as the attack planes.

uh oh! Someone spilled the beans....

ORIGINAL: Miller

"I'm really at my wits end regarding the airstrike co-ordination bullshit. It seems to be mission impossible to get any sort of worthwhile escort to arrive at the same time as the bombers".

I have tried everything that has been suggested: Fighters at same Alt as bombers (even though that puts them at a huge disadvantage against CAP), limiting the range to non-extended, high morale, high inspiration pilots/leaders, more aviation support than is needed at a base, Air HQ at a base....nothing seems to work.

I'm sorry but an escorted strike was not beyond the IJN in 1944, no matter how inept their pilots/leaders.

Paul, you wonna say that you don´t get your daitais to coordinate? [;)] You probably still got some virus on your PC that origined from our WITP game. Suggest to put in a new harddisc. [;)]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: Miller

"I'm really at my wits end regarding the airstrike co-ordination bullshit. It seems to be mission impossible to get any sort of worthwhile escort to arrive at the same time as the bombers".

I have tried everything that has been suggested: Fighters at same Alt as bombers (even though that puts them at a huge disadvantage against CAP), limiting the range to non-extended, high morale, high inspiration pilots/leaders, more aviation support than is needed at a base, Air HQ at a base....nothing seems to work.

I'm sorry but an escorted strike was not beyond the IJN in 1944, no matter how inept their pilots/leaders.

Paul, you wonna say that you don´t get your daitais to coordinate? [;)] You probably still got some virus on your PC that origined from our WITP game. Suggest to put in a new harddisc. [;)]

I wish I could blame my performance in that game on a virus or game error...alas I was just a bad WITP player, but you learn the hard way[:'(]

ORIGINAL: Miller

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Whats the average experience your pilots are fighing with?

(not A2A or defensive)

Most are around 50. As SqzMyLemon suggested I may try changing all the units at a base to the same HQ, although I doubt that will help unless the parent HQ is actually at the base..........

Miller I think an exp of 50 is on the low end of the effective spectrum.

It was already stated a couple of times and I agree that for everything except pure mission specific situations experience is by far the most
important attribute for a pilot.
Assigning squads to HQ´s is still discussed if it really impacts coordination. I believe so and always assign them to the HQ where they are located but others might think different.

Should not matter what the "average" pilot skill is or even the individual pilots skill. It should be on the flight leader to get his flock where they need to be and on time to meet the bombers. And frankly pretty much anyone out of flight school can do that (except of course the leader of flight 19).

I'm Miller's opponent, so of course it's easy for me to "see the other side," but to me this particular sequence of events didn't seem unreasonable given the date and circumstances.

It's early 1944 and I had several large combat TFs nearing or at Morotai, a large but "forward" Allied base.  I think Miller set alot of strike aircraft to "naval attack" with plenty of fighters set to escort.  The Allies, in turn, had a decent (but by no means overwhelming) amount of CAP at Morotai.

The Japanese strikes came in bunches and were scattered.  Mostly fighters came in first with a few dozen strike aircraft, mostly unescorted, coming later.  But the vast waves of Japanese fighters wore out the Allied CAP, so that the strike aircraft, while taking heavy losses, nevertheless managed to score quite a few hits on BB Massachusetts and some hits on CA Suffolk and an xAP.

Overall, considering it's 1944, I think the Japanese came out pretty well.  Based upon history I would not expect the Japanese to be able to launch well-coordinated, massive strikes at this late date. The fact that the Japanese were able to do as well as they did is, I think, commendable on Miller's part. But to me the results were plausible.

And frankly pretty much anyone out of flight school can do that

People are different. Don't assume they are a machine.

Very strange, I never had a problem with coordinated strikes as Japan player. Main conditions for strike are not overstacked airbase level 3+ with enough air support points.

There is simple rule - order at least 1 group to sweep enemy airbase, because in 90% cases in my games sweep mission arrives before bombers and escorting frighters. So the skys are clear for strike force, or enemy CAP is disrupted and has high level of fatigue.

ORIGINAL: Swenslim
There is simple rule - order at least 1 group to sweep enemy airbase, because in 90% cases in my games sweep mission arrives before bombers and escorting frighters. So the skys are clear for strike force, or enemy CAP is disrupted and has high level of fatigue.

We must not be playing the same game. At least 98% of my sweep missions come in after bombers and escorting fighters.

The important stat is general XP - for things like ops losses, navigation landing etc you need high general xp.
 
50 is low its ok for defensive ops where a high A2A rating is all you need but for attacking or performing missions you need to have decent pilot xp.
 
I dont commit pilots to sweeps or escorts unless they are at 65+ general xp or are part of a large strike force where 1 or sqns failing to rendevous wont kill my pilots.
 
Below that they are only good for CAP.