Matrix Games Forums

In 1942 The 16th and 21th Sentai Operated the KaI-45 Nick Historically, but in the game this squadrons are either not represented or are unable to operate the Aircraft.

Actually, it seems as despite that this Aircraft Historically served in New Guinea, Burma and China in 1942, it in AE game it will be locked to a single restricted unit in Japan for 1942. (Both with PDU on and OFF)

I get the humble impression that the Matrix designers has done this with intention, as it applies to sevreal other "better" Japanese early war designs as well.

I sent a PM asking some of the designers about this, but got no reply.

I apology that I find this frustrating, but I still have the (PDU ON) "Nearly No Navy fighters can upgrade to Navy fighter N1K George" syndrome fresh in mind.. and now see similar things happening on the Army side.

P.Hausser you gotta remember something, Teh developers might not know every specific detail about a game they are designing the size of WITP Ae, its possible some have the knowledge, but it takes players like us and beta testers to sort out that information correctly.

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

P.Hausser you gotta remember something, Teh developers might not know every specific detail about a game they are designing the size of WITP Ae, its possible some have the knowledge, but it takes players like us and beta testers to sort out that information correctly.

NO! THEY SHOULD KNOW EVERYTHING!!!!!! [:'(][:D][:'(]

There are a couple of units that can upgrade to the NICK, for es: 5th,[Japan] 13th[Japan], 84th Sentai[Indo China] Nate's at the start of the game can upgrade to any of the Nick's.

13th Can not upgrade to this until way into 1943,     and the 84th Must stay Nate until this date because IF you upgrade the Nates just once to anything else then you loose the abilety for the rest of the game.

Practically you are looked, and the historical units who actually are represented in the game can't upgrade to it either.
The other historical units who used it are just simply not represented in the game, The same applies to most units who used the N1K George.

ORIGINAL: Termite2

Nate's at the start of the game can upgrade to any of the Nick's.

This may have been the case in a earlyer version? But in the newest version it is not the case.

Here is an intresting PM i got from Hausser

ORIGINAL:  P.Hausser

For being born in 1972 your post in my thread is very very childish.

Thanks for the info mate, your to serious about yourself

I don't expect anyone to know everything, I was hoping however that PDU-ON would allow you to produce modern aircraft when they get available, and then upgrade your frontline squadrons to them.  I do not remember how WITP solved this originally, but in Big.B mod who is the one I played a lot it was not an issue.

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

Here is an intresting PM i got from Hausser

ORIGINAL:  P.Hausser

For being born in 1972 your post in my thread is very very childish.

Thanks for the info mate, your to serious about yourself

Don´t know whether you are childish or not, but it seems bad style to me, to make a PRIVATE message somehow PUBLIC. I am sure you asked Hausser before you posted?

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

13th Can not upgrade to this until way into 1943,     and the 84th Must stay Nate until this date because IF you upgrade the Nates just once to anything else then you loose the abilety for the rest of the game.

Practically you are looked, and the historical units who actually are represented in the game can't upgrade to it either.
The other historical units who used it are just simply not represented in the game, The same applies to most units who used the N1K George.

ORIGINAL: Termite2

Nate's at the start of the game can upgrade to any of the Nick's.

This may have been the case in a earlyer version? But in the newest version it is not the case.

I am playing scen #1 version is 1.03.1102a What scenario are you playing and what year/month/day?

I will check

ORIGINAL: Termite2

I am playing scen #1 version is 1.03.1102a What scenario are you playing and what year/month/day?

Same scenario and newest version.

There is at Scenario start 3 Squadrons who can do the upgrade, 84th, 4th and another.
2 of them are loocked to Japan and 1 is in Indo China as I.F 84th. Howver you need to keep the 84th flying Nates untill you can do the upgrade or you loose it for ever.

You can open a random scenario 1, 7/41 and try any Nate group you like, and you will see.
Note that there is 2 other Nate groups who can do the upgrade, but only to Ki-45B version, so not untill mid 1943, and by then the aircraft is obsolete anyway.

The KI-45A version comes in 5/42 and can be upgraded to by 3 Squadrons, of who 2 are looked in Japan and 1 is (and must stay) Nates untill the upgrade.

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

ORIGINAL: Termite2

I am playing scen #1 version is 1.03.1102a What scenario are you playing and what year/month/day?

Same scenario and newest version.

There is at Scenario start 3 Squadrons who can do the upgrade, 84th, 4th and another.
2 of them are loocked to Japan and 1 is in Indo China as I.F 84th. Howver you need to keep the 84th flying Nates untill you can do the upgrade or you loose it for ever.

You can open a random scenario 1, 7/41 and try any Nate group you like, and you will see.
Note that there is 2 other Nate groups who can do the upgrade, but only to Ki-45B version, so not untill mid 1943, and by then the aircraft is obsolete anyway.

The KI-45A version comes in 5/42 and can be upgraded to by 3 Squadrons, of who 2 are looked in Japan and 1 is (and must stay) Nates untill the upgrade.

I would just pay the political points and move them out;for ex, take the 5th's Nate's, pay 60 PP [start of game] , using drop tanks, move the to Chichi-Jima, upgrade to 1a's on 5/42

I have the latest version, changed the 84th's Nate's to Oscar's and the next listed upgrade for the unit are Nick's 1a 5/42. Maybe your files are corrupted? Or did you update the game in progress?

No, I have tested on 2 different PC's, and here is the test when doing it from scratch (7/41)




Squadron in orginal form:





Squadron after upgraded to Oscar (NOTE that KI45A is gone from Upgrade list)

Simple fix for you. Save the Scenario you want to play (PBEM or AI) in a slot number above 20. Go into Editor and make the changes you want. If you find errors from your perspective, then you can make the changes and not need to restart the game.

And here is the other Squadron who can do the Upgrade, NOTE it is looked and can not be payed PP for.







So, you are looking at a situation were you can have 12 Nick's in frontline service until mid 1943, (assuming you keep the Nates..)
Who makes it a bit pointless as the Aircraft will be more or less obsolete by then. Historically it saw frontline action as of Mid 1942 in Burma, China and New Gunney with Squadrons who is not represented in the game, or who is represented but can not upgrade to it.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Simple fix for you. Save the Scenario you want to play (PBEM or AI) in a slot number above 20. Go into Editor and make the changes you want. If you find errors from your perspective, then you can make the changes and not need to restart the game.

This would be sort of a different topic, one can always play a Mod of course.

But the point I am trying to make is not that the game can be modified, but I instead try to point out that this is a flawed in the design of the ordinal product and maybe should be considered to be fixed via the games official upgrade and patching system.

The squadrons who is not represented in the Game should probably also be added to the game, unless the designer have game balance reasons in mind ?

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser
unless the designer have game balance reasons in mind ?

I wouldn't be opposed to removing some of the numerous bonuses the Japanese side gets in exchange for these planes. Sign me up. [8D]

Checked the editor - there are 7 sentai that upgrade to the ki-45 -- 4th,5th,13th,84th 27th,45th and 53rd
there are also 3 chutai that upgrade to the ki-45 -- temp.flight.chutai, spc.attck.unit and hakko dai hachi tai.

accordingto JAPANESE AIRCRAFT OF THE PACIFIC by Francillon there were 9 sentai (4th,5th,13th 16th,21st,27th,45th,53rd,65th and 70th) and 2 chutai and a fighter training school.
the 1st unit (4th) to recieve the ki-45 was in aug 42
the 1st unit (21st- Burma) to enter a combat theatre was in oct 42 , with the 16th(China) entering combat in nov 42

I don't see that the discrepancy is that great.

16th sentai has ki-48's
21st sentai is missing
70th sentai has ki-44's

You clarely do not get the point.

It is not about the total number who do upgrade, but about when they can upgrade, what relevance does it have if you can upgrade in 45?

If you allow 75% of the ones who upgrade to do the upgrade in 1944 or 1943 (to the later versions only), then that is pointless as the Aircraft is already obsolete by then.
When the Aircraft was at its peak, it in AE can be operated (outside of Japan) by 1 Squadron of 12 Aircraft, and that assumes you have keept that Squadron as Nates until that point.

The Ki-45A is a good aircraft when it comed out, (In compared to other aircraft used at the time). The KI-45B is not so good.. as it comes out 1 year later, and by then the design is more or less obsolete.

This is not so realistic, as far more squadrons operated this aircraft outside of Japan during 1942 then what is possible in AE.
It is the same story about the Jack & N1K George, but lets not go into that, there have been a numerous amount of posts about that already.

About the "almost no squadrons can upgrade to the George (and Jack)" problem...:

I "solved" this by just making the George and Jack carrier capable.
With one stroke almost all navy fighter squadrons can upgrade to Jack and George.
Will require a few home rules, of course, but it's very simple.