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With all the arguments about pricing nobody talks about the game itself as yet. As a question to those who own AtD already, how it compares to Kharkov?

At first glance the new map looks considerable larger, but it's hard to tell if screenshots were made in 1024x768 or 1280x1024. There are 4 Axis armies here, while Kharkov merely had 3. Does that imply 25% more German counters to command? The engine got two innovations: NKVD units and an 'entrench all' button, anything else?

I'm far, far from an expert (I generally get my butt handed to me by these games) but AotD is more "fluid" in many ways, especially as the situation has the Germans driving a relatively long distance and for multiple objectives. The Dnepr splits the battle into two areas in some ways, to further complicate it. I haven't counted the units but there are a lot of 'em, and the Soviets also have a bucketload. I play at 1280x1024 and the map is big; one of my personal challenges is keeping situational awareness, because the battle covers more area than Kharkov.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

With all the arguments about pricing nobody talks about the game itself as yet. As a question to those who own AtD already, how it compares to Kharkov?

At first glance the new map looks considerable larger, but it's hard to tell if screenshots were made in 1024x768 or 1280x1024. There are 4 Axis armies here, while Kharkov merely had 3. Does that imply 25% more German counters to command? The engine got two innovations: NKVD units and an 'entrench all' button, anything else?

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ORIGINAL: Lützow

With all the arguments about pricing nobody talks about the game itself as yet. As a question to those who own AtD already, how it compares to Kharkov?

At first glance the new map looks considerable larger, but it's hard to tell if screenshots were made in 1024x768 or 1280x1024. There are 4 Axis armies here, while Kharkov merely had 3. Does that imply 25% more German counters to command? The engine got two innovations: NKVD units and an 'entrench all' button, anything else?

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The Kharkov map is 56x61 hexes' ATD2 it 88x80.

Another major change in the engine is the elimination of the operation point (OP) penalty cap on a hex (OP penalties are caused by detachments, interdiction, partisans, combat debris, enemy hex control, and , significantly, by adjacent enemy combat steps) which impede friendly movement. This has been balanced by the expansion of the HQ reduction in OP costs imparted to subordinate units from affecting only enemy owned hexes to reducing all OP costs ( the Unified Field Theory of wargames).

Kharkov had a hex OP cap of 15, so your typical 18 MP infantry (think Russian) could withdraw from a front line hex and still have 12 MP left to pull back to next turn's defensive line. No more. Their opponet (think Axis) can now amass enough OP penalties with adjacent combat steps (often helped by combat debris/interdiction costs) to limit its movment sufficiently to bag it.

OP penalties affect supply transmission too so the above tactic can also put a front line hex in marginal supply range out of supply, wherein the unit can't move at all.

Thank you for the info. Was helpful for making up my mind.

That is a really interesting post Tempest.

I wonder if the designers considered having the number of friendly steps in a hex mitigate the penalty imposed by adjacent enemy steps?

So 3 regiments in a hex would not be as impeded by adjacent German units, but as each regiment moves out the penalty exerted into the hex becomes greater for the regiments left in the hex - so that by the time the last regiment tries to leave the hex the penalty is much greater. This would seem rather realistic as the last regiment out would have a lot of pressure from enemy units in contact.

Nice to see this discussion. [8D]