Matrix Games Forums

I'm about to abandon the only game I've managed to play for very long. I'm very deep into it, but things have just broken down.

One reason is that the AI is completely suicidal and it's a bit annoying. Just as I suspected in my war management thread, the AI places far too much emphasis on reputation when declaring war and does not take into account whether it has any chance to actually win the war.

In my game, there are three huge empire: my Human empire, my big brain guys ally (I can't remember the name of this race), and an evil Shandar race (this is a simplification really, but the evil race is using Way of Darkness). We each had about 150+ systems at one point, before the Shandar split in two because of a never-ending war with my ally (that my ally must have started).

There are three other empires, all with less than 10 colonies. A second human empire, in fact, had only 1 planet with the Securans having about 9. I was allied with the humans and Securans, in addition to the empire mentioned above.

A few weeks or so before I abandoned the game, the second human and the Securans declared war on my other ally. He called for my assistance, which I declined. This, of course, caused many complications, since our colonies were somewhat interwoven and our ships frequently pass through each others territory. Ultimately, I was at war with my former ally and I'm just not ready to deal with the annoying wars when empires are this huge (see my other thread, now in tech support).

Those tiny AI empires have no business attacking a vastly superior foe, regardless of that foe's reputation (it was dubious). I have reloaded this game 3-4 times and the result is always the same: the little empires will suicidally throw themselves against him every time. Within a few months, both are either completely or mostly destroyed.

Suicidal AI players are an old problem in strategy games. It's actually a bit nostalgic to encounter them again. But it is something that desperately needs fixed.

Another thing to look at, and I'm not as familiar with this problem, is the peace-making AI. I've noticed the AI gets into so very long wars leading to splits (like described above).

I agree about this, I have seen it a couple of times as well. Tiny empires have no business attacking giants 10 times their size unless they feel that their target is hated enough that this might make larger fish join in on the attack. Though care should really be taken to not draw the smaller *NOT* attacking too far. I could easily see Empires half the size of their enemy, and probably even smaller, win a war in Distant Worlds. Of course, depending on such things as technology, access to super weapons, race and government bonuses, and military might.

Thanks for the report, we will take a look at this. A save file, if possible, would help us investigate your exact situation.

How can I upload these save files?

here is an explanation on the upload:
tm.asp?m=2415085

i recommend that you zip it along with a text file explaining the situation (and possibly linking to this thread). normally you should also include a dxdiag file
tm.asp?m=2413997

but since this involves the AI behavior and not a crash I doubt it would be necessary. (but if you do have a reproduce-able crash, do include the dxdiag when uploading it).

PS. I am not with matrix, I am just a fellow player.

Does seem like there should be a point where the AI empires say to themselves...

"Yes we hate Shark7, but his empire is huge and would crush us like a bug...best to play along for now."

One would think a good size limit on war declarations would be around 150% of the AI empires current size. If your empire is 1.5 times larger or more, it makes sense that attacking might be a bit suicidal. If the player or another AI empire starts the war, then they fight it out, but they should be much, much less likely to actively seek out conflict.

Diplomacy is essentially the art of sucking up, and in the case of the 800 lbs gorilla block bully, there should be a lot of that going on. The exception would be if several smaller empires can gang up to bring it at least to 1 to 1 odds.

if you think about it, its not like they are acting in self defense... they are simply attacking you because they hate you.
even if you are the same size.. heck, even if smaller...

do you recall the united states going to war with the soviet union? china? no... they had a cold war instead.
did anyone else attack the soviet union or china despite their rep?

I would think that an empire will only go to war with someone they hate if they are bigger then them... same size is too risky because of Pyrrhic victories... even if you crush the enemy you take too much damage yourself.

Now I am not saying never go to war... there are plenty of more legitimate reasons to do so though.

ORIGINAL: taltamir

do you recall the united states going to war with the soviet union? china? no... they had a cold war instead.
did anyone else attack the soviet union or china despite their rep?

It would maybe make sense if it was about contested territory. I know that's not the case now, but it would make diplomacy more interesting if say "Star system 493" had resources or once belonged to the smaller empire 100 years ago. The war would last unti the smaller empire was crushed or the larger empire thought 493 just isn’t worth the headache anymore.

vietnam was "contested territories".. the soviets funded one side, the USA funded another... neither was willing to directly fight each other.

Realism aside, it makes for a silly game to watch the AI throw itself to its death by declaring war based purely on reputation.

The situation in my latest game actually involved a 1 planet empire declaring war on an empire with over 150 colonies. This was followed by a 9 planet empire doing the same.

That's just ridiculous.

ORIGINAL: taltamir

vietnam was "contested territories".. the soviets funded one side, the USA funded another... neither was willing to directly fight each other.

It was a proxy war. We'll fight by letting out our sponsored satellite states use our funds and equipment.

I agree with the topic post.The A.I should factor military strength into diplomacy before DOW.

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Realism aside, it makes for a silly game to watch the AI throw itself to its death by declaring war based purely on reputation.

The situation in my latest game actually involved a 1 planet empire declaring war on an empire with over 150 colonies. This was followed by a 9 planet empire doing the same.

That's just ridiculous.

I agree, I first pointed it out a while ago and said AI should have a "fear factor" in their dealings. a numerical value of exactly how superior I am to them (as a ratio) and use that to weigh in on their calculations.

That being said, if someone IS evil enough, they might be seen as a threat to every single empire out there... but this should take the form of total war against them with all the other empires declaring peace while at war with that one... All of them banding together to fight you is more realistic than just the one tiny "empire" itself. However this should require that you be performing genocide on whole races (including those in your empire) which isn't even an option... as such you cannot ever be that "evil" in the game.

And there is still the problem that you can make peace with the other 800 pound gorilla you then go and squash those 1 planet empires like bugs