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First night: Combat over Leeuwarden Radar Site 8/18/83

Alt: 15,000
Weather 31% at 6900 feet.

10 Night intruders, one NI per mission. 6 Beaufighters and 4 Mossies XII.
40+ JU-88s, Do-217N and Me-110s.

Plenty of sightings, no combat.

Both groups were in the same hex, the radar station and both groups were at 15,000 feet. No combat.

Second Night: Combat over same location. 8/19/83.

Alt 15,000.
Weather 27% at 6000 feet.

20 Night intruders (Mix of Beaufighters and Mossies XII).

60+ German Twin engine fighters. 110s, 88s, and 217s.


Plenty of sighters, only two combats. Both combats were initiated by Ju-88s which damaged two Beaufighters.


Again, both groups were in the same location, over the same radar station with plenty of contacks.

Your point ?

Third Night, 8/18/43
Combat over Leeuwarden Radar Site
Alt: 15,000
Weather 50% at 7000 feet
 
25 NI. A mix of Beaufighters, Mossie II and XIII. Single planes.
Over 100 German Night Fighters.  He-219s, Ju-88s, Me-110s, Do-217.
 
No combat.  About 40 contacts by the British Night Fighters.
 
Only a few visual sighters by mostly Me-110s and Ju-88s.
 

Combat between nightfighters during the war was *extremely* rare, except when the intruders were over an enemy airfield.  I don't understand what you doing these tests for, but the lack of combat success is accurate.  Nightfighters simple did not "dogfight" like their daytime counterparts to any degree.  Late in the war BC flew Mosquitos in the bomber stream to intercept German nightfighters, but they never fought any engagements like your tests.

In Middlebrook's book about the Nuremburg raid, he does describe an account of a rare night time dogfight which was only possible because the moonlight was so bright.  The result was neither fighter could get on each others tail and the action broke off.

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

Combat between nightfighters during the war was *extremely* rare, except when the intruders were over an enemy airfield.  I don't understand what you doing these tests for, but the lack of combat success is accurate.  Nightfighters simple did not "dogfight" like their daytime counterparts to any degree.  Late in the war BC flew Mosquitos in the bomber stream to intercept German nightfighters, but they never fought any engagements like your tests.

In Middlebrook's book about the Nuremburg raid, he does describe an account of a rare night time dogfight which was only possible because the moonlight was so bright.  The result was neither fighter could get on each others tail and the action broke off.

Right, so why all the electronics on the British NFs???

Obviously the electronics are to find and therefore shoot down the German fighters. They are finding them in pretty good numbers, but they never attack them.

RAF nightfighter's equipment was designed for intercepting German night bombers over Britain.  Also used for locating fighters over their airbases.  Only in late 1944 where they used for operations against German nightfighters in the bomber stream.  And those were never anywhere near as successful as daytime escorts.

You have to know that the AI radars have very short ranges, and without CGI finding targets is basically like finding the needle in the haystack.   The fact that they are locating the enemy and not attacking them is likely their inability to obtain a firing position.  Similar to the level 3 message indicating a bomber has been sighted or detected, and the fact that the bomber evades is announced.   Losing contact with the bomber target was very common.  Attempting to maintain contact with a somewhat more maneuverable NF is even more difficult.  Once maneuvering began it was all done by eyesight as the radars had very limited fields, unlike modern AI radar.

So it is no surprise that there are few attacks by NFs against NFs.  I have seen a handful over the course of 90 some turns.

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

RAF nightfighter's equipment was designed for intercepting German night bombers over Britain.  Also used for locating fighters over their airbases.  Only in late 1944 where they used for operations against German nightfighters in the bomber stream.  And those were never anywhere near as successful as daytime escorts.

You have to know that the AI radars have very short ranges, and without CGI finding targets is basically like finding the needle in the haystack.   The fact that they are locating the enemy and not attacking them is likely their inability to obtain a firing position.  Similar to the level 3 message indicating a bomber has been sighted or detected, and the fact that the bomber evades is announced.   Losing contact with the bomber target was very common.  Attempting to maintain contact with a somewhat more maneuverable NF is even more difficult.  Once maneuvering began it was all done by eyesight as the radars had very limited fields, unlike modern AI radar.

So it is no surprise that there are few attacks by NFs against NFs.  I have seen a handful over the course of 90 some turns.

You mean like the Searate (sp?)? I didn't know the Mossies carried the radar-detectors to find the German bombers.

;->

most of the good stuff wasn't allowed to cross the channel

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

most of the good stuff wasn't allowed to cross the channel

I've read Nightfighter over Germany, the author was a Mosquito pilot during WW2. He was posted to a 100 Grp sqn with his radar trained nav, they found out that the sqn wasn't using AI equipment on their intruder missions so asked for a transfer to an AI equipped unit. Which meant a transfer to Fighter Command and defensive ops until later in the war.