Matrix Games Forums

There are certain gameplay changes I have been wanting to mod since I have owned the game and I think I have decided finally to do it. The goal of this mod is to increase the challenge and realism in ToW. Here are some changes I am thinking about:

1) Changing the number of impulses during certain months. Winter offensives are way too easy and to me accelerate the end game a year or two. Here is my suggestion: Jan = 2, Feb = 2, March = 3, April = 3, May - Sept = 4, Oct = 3, Nov = 3, Dec = 2.

2) Entrechment and terrain defense bonuses. I would like to increase the maximum entrechment bonus to maybe 50%. I would also like to increase mountain defense bonus to may 150%.

3) BIG ONE! I want to increase the cost of infantry units to build maybe up to 400% their current level. Being able to field an infantry division for 5-10 pp is crazy unrealistic. I would be confortable with divisions costing between 20-30 pp and corps costing 60-70pp. I would only slightly increase to cost of armored units and motorized units. I would also love to prune the event database to cut out the free land units (except for key units the AI needs).

4) I want to change the resource locations in few cases. England needs some of her resources located in the ME.

5) All ships start the game undamaged.

6) I would like to create an event that univserally lowers effectiveness of units during winter, by maybe 50%. I addition, I want to create a special event to cripple the Germans during the first winter of an invasion of Russia.


Here is my initial list of changes, I want everyones input!

Sounds interesting.
But I'm not sure how AI will handle point 3

Some points here are interesting, but...

ORIGINAL: swatter555

3) BIG ONE! I want to increase the cost of infantry units to build maybe up to 400% their current level. Being able to field an infantry division for 5-10 pp is crazy unrealistic. I would be confortable with divisions costing between 20-30 pp and corps costing 60-70pp. I would only slightly increase to cost of armored units and motorized units. I would also love to prune the event database to cut out the free land units (except for key units the AI needs).

5) All ships start the game undamaged.

3 - why would you do such a thing? The result will be tank and motorized armies... Why would anyone use infantry if not for the cost? Esp since there is no oil in the game... 6 points for a inf div of lvl 1 is not a small amount. Such a unit does not present high combat value and upgrading does increase the cost properly. The only way when inf cost could be increased without breaking the game would be either increasing the cost of other units accordingly (but then what's the point?) or making amour and mech produce longer than 0 turns.
5 - why? I just do not see the point here. These are not ships but squadrons, damage reflects the size...

Other idea are very good, esp the ones about winter.

any thought to zone of control, terrain movement costs, and AP changes? Current ZOC rules make breakthroughs almost impossible.

6pps to field an infantry division is simply too cheap, same goes for a 20pp corps. We are talking about massive organizations here. I suppose what I want to see most of all is manpower added to the game. Maybe I will try for a 50% increase and see what happens. Maybe that wont cause the AI to wonk out.

doomtrader-

Could you tell me what winter weather events are already in the game? Is there a blizzard 41 event already?

Air units taking losses while attacking 0-4 units etc. I'm finding out that as modelled tactical air units are way too expensive and way too fragile to be worth anything.

Air units being able to "escort" naval units through coastal sea zones and be able to attack intercepting units both air and naval.

A limit to "Zerg" units. Currently I'm in a game where both sides have 1-4 units all over the place as cannon fodder. It's very silly and I'm as guilty as anyone for doing it. Possibly a overrun at 8-1 odds that would just cost a movement point but with no possible loss of strength and 100% loss for defender.

Diplomacy that makes some sense. If Italy wants to declare war on the US why can't it at any time etc.

No subs in fleets with surface ships. It didn't happen. Subs cannot keep up with surface ships and just didn't travel with them for any reason.

I have to disagree with some of Harry's points.
 
The use of weaker troops in the line to slow the attacker is time honored and realistic.  It may not be fun for either side, but them "War is Hell".  If the Soviets cannot use cannon fodder there will be no line.
 
The player controlling Italy may very well want to declare war on the USA, but Italy did not.  The diplomatic system must make sure the player controlling the Axis does not subordinate all the Axis Minors to Germany's will.  It just did not happen that way.
 
Chuck

Hey Chuck: "The use of weaker troops in the line to slow the attacker is time honored and realistic. It may not be fun for either side, but them "War is Hell". If the Soviets cannot use cannon fodder there will be no line."

I actually have no problem with it happening in the East but not in France. I don't know how many board games I've played where you had over run rules. You could still use cannon fodder and Zergs but they would not cause losses to the attacking forces (sometimes up to 50%) nor prevent breakouts. As I said maybe a movement penalty at the most. Taking three 7 to 1 attacks to destroy a 0-1 unit is a little much IMO. Hey maybe I'm wrong and just have never seen it before. Can you name some games that this happens besides StarCraft .

"The player controlling Italy may very well want to declare war on the USA, but Italy did not. The diplomatic system must make sure the player controlling the Axis does not subordinate all the Axis Minors to Germany's will. It just did not happen that way.

So we are doomed to only repeat history? That's no fun. I want alternatives and unpredictability not rinse, repeat, wash, rinse, repeat, wash. I understand and crave rules that force logical choices but not ones that offer no choices. Maybe in the case where the Axis controls both Germany and Italy directly but not in a multi player game where each nation is able to do as it wishes. Maybe a huge penalty in domestic unrest would be in order but it should be possible for a crazed lunatic to declare war on anyone at any time.

but it should be possible for a crazed lunatic to declare war on anyone at any time.

You really DO need to be playing against a human instead of an AI to achieve that level of unpredictability.

Hairog, I don't think many of the things you mentioned are moddable. I think airstrike losses are moddable and something I could look at. Certainly with lower strength units air-versus-ground can be very ineffecient. At the same time, it works well with stronger units. Ill take a look at it, though.

ORIGINAL: swatter555

Hairog, I don't think many of the things you mentioned are moddable. I think airstrike losses are moddable and something I could look at. Certainly with lower strength units air-versus-ground can be very ineffecient. At the same time, it works well with stronger units. Ill take a look at it, though.

The would be great. Thanks

Hey Swatter555, how about a ww1 mod?

Well beyond my scope of interest.

I like increasing the defense bonuses, if possible I would make mountains impassible to corps size units.

If you feel that units are too inexpensive how about starting a game with varied difficulty levels.

That might be a solution, but to me there is something inherently wrong with creating massive organizations so cheaply. I will experiment and only accept changes that have measurable and positive effect on the game.

I would like to see a game with just divisions. Right now this games has far to many Corps sized units at the start of the game. Ok so I counted them and checked my history books. the 1939 scn has 33 German corps at the start of 1939!!!!! I think only 12 corps took part in the OB against Poland. Also there are two Panzer corps that I could not find in any history books that took part in Poland.

If I had all the time in the world, I might make a smaller European map and use only corps. That being said, in order for this game to work with divisions, you would need some sort of stacking.

ORIGINAL: swatter555

If I had all the time in the world, I might make a smaller European map and use only corps. That being said, in order for this game to work with divisions, you would need some sort of stacking.

I like your counter mod swatter, keep up the good work.

ORIGINAL: axisandallies

I would like to see a game with just divisions. Right now this games has far to many Corps sized units at the start of the game. Ok so I counted them and checked my history books. the 1939 scn has 33 German corps at the start of 1939!!!!! I think only 12 corps took part in the OB against Poland. Also there are two Panzer corps that I could not find in any history books that took part in Poland.

Most of the OOB was based on this data:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/000_admin/000oob.htm

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

ORIGINAL: axisandallies

I would like to see a game with just divisions. Right now this games has far to many Corps sized units at the start of the game. Ok so I counted them and checked my history books. the 1939 scn has 33 German corps at the start of 1939!!!!! I think only 12 corps took part in the OB against Poland. Also there are two Panzer corps that I could not find in any history books that took part in Poland.

Most of the OOB was based on this data:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/000_admin/000oob.htm

Good site, however most of those so called armee korps where just name only units, or units being formed. If the Germans had 33 korps, like in this game, plus the two Panzer korps that is also in this game the could have over taken Poland in a week. I have read the German order of battle by Stackpole military history series.
I Korps 1939 Formed 1921 Poland
II korps 1939 formed 1921 Poland
III Panzer Korps formed 1921 Poland fought as and Infantry korps
IV korps formed 1921 Poland
V korps formed 1921 {was not active for Poland}
VI korps formed in 1921 Poland
VII korps formed in 1921 Poland
VIII Korps formed in 1938 Poland
IX korps formed in 1935 Poland
X korps formed in 1935 Poland
XI korps formed in 1938 Poland
XII korps formed in 1936 [was not active in Poland}
XIII Korps formed in1937 Poland
XIV Panzer Korps formed in 1938 Poland {fought as a Mot Korps}
XV Mot Korps formed in 1938 poland {fought as a light inf korps}
XVI Mot Korps formed in 1938 Poland [ formed to control Germany's three panzer divisions}
XVII Korps formed in 1938 Poland
XIX Korps formed in 1939 Poland
XX Korps formed in 1939 Poland
XXVI korps formed in 1939 Poland
XXX Korps formed in 1939 Poland

so that 19 korps, not the 33 the game has, and Germany had just one Panzer Korps at start of 1939.