Matrix Games Forums

At what point does a unit evaporate? Does it depend on what size the unit is (division, brigade, etc.)? Does proficiency play a role? Quality? Readiness or supply? I'm wondering because I'd like units to behave a little more as they did historically. Here's an example:

10th Rifle Division: Attacked by parts of three German Infantry Divisions on 22 June. By 4 July three rifle regiments totaled 780 men, 2 AT guns left in the AT battalion and 23 artillery pieces in 30th light artillery.

It later got reinforcements, still in combat, that brought it up to ~3000. I'm sure at 3000 guys the game would still want to evaporate it. [8|]

It's like there's a trigger happy hand with a death ray in the code, ZZZZAP, evaporated. MWAHAHAHA.

Now this division didn't 'evaporate' nor did it become unable to conduct combat operations. This was your average June 1941 Soviet Rifle Division. In the game I'm sure it wouldn't be on the map anymore. This is not an exception. Not for the Germans and not for the Soviets.

How on earth do you model a unit losing that much without the game saying it's evaporated? [&:]

If I remember right, it's mainly the quality, there are several quality checks that have to fail.

I think that the loss tolerance is also a factor though, so if you set your units to Limit losses, they are more likely to be able to retreat in good order, and if you set them to ignore losses, they're less likely to retreat, but more likely to evaporate.

I'd test that last piece before blindly believing it, however.

Ralph

EDIT:Added .Sig

Does the Attrition Divider have any effect on it?

ORIGINAL: desert

Does the Attrition Divider have any effect on it?

Quality = (2 x proficiency + readiness) / 3

That's the way the game determines quality. Quality checks decide when a unit goes poof from what I understand and from Ralph's information.

I have to believe morale has something to do with it too but I don't know. Maybe that just affects retreating and/or routing or maybe not. [&:] I'd like to see the formula for how morale is determined and what morale affects other than unit strength.

So, if you set the attrition divider so fewer losses are taken it may take longer for the unit to evaporate. On the other hand, the more combats it's in the lower it's readiness gets and the lower it's quality becomes. But, the more combats it's in the higher it's proficiency may become. Probably not enough to offset reduced readiness but proficiency will be doubled. It would appear there are several and/if/or possibilities there.

Sometimes I wish the scenario designer were given more things to manipulate. Movement bias, once set, can't be changed during the course of the scenario. Communication, once set, can't be changed during the course of the scenario. These two really bother me.

A scenario designer should also be allowed to decide at what point a unit is no longer able to function as a fighting entity beyond the obvious routing of the unit. And probably decide what brand of beer the troops get. [;)]

ORIGINAL: Panama

I have to believe morale has something to do with it too but I don't know. Maybe that just affects retreating and/or routing or maybe not. [&:] I'd like to see the formula for how morale is determined and what morale affects other than unit strength.

If there's any variable in the game known as or specifically reflecting morale then it's the first I've heard of it.

The formula you posted, plus its sister (2*proficiency+readiness+supply)/4 are the only measures of unit quality which I'm familiar with.

But, the more combats it's in the higher it's proficiency may become. Probably not enough to offset reduced readiness but proficiency will be doubled.

Proficiency may go up as well as down. You may lose your house if you do not keep up repayments on your mortgage.

Sometimes I wish the scenario designer were given more things to manipulate. Movement bias, once set, can't be changed during the course of the scenario. Communication, once set, can't be changed during the course of the scenario. These two really bother me.

Amen. TOAW ultimately lives and dies by the quality of its scenarios. Give us the tools so we can finish the job.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
The formula you posted, plus its sister (2*proficiency+readiness+supply)/4 are the only measures of unit quality which I'm familiar with.

Ah, that must be what this refers to:

8.2.4 Unit Morale
This is a weighted average of a unit’s Proficiency, Supply Level,
and Readiness. Regardless of actual Proficiency, Supply Level or
Readiness, Morale can be no lower than 10% and no higher than
100%. This value is multiplied by the raw equipment Strengths
to calculate the actual effective Strengths of the unit.

It makes me happy a computer is doing all the math and not me. [:D]