Matrix Games Forums

Q:

It's my turn- I've just set up an attack on a German front line with an all armor unit, and the German unit has retreated. So with my 23,11 unit (in Center of picture) now in the enemy hex after the overrun, I have the MPs to try to move through directly north into the rear- where they'll be 3 empty hexes in front of me, and I have the MPs to make any of these hexes and possibly go further, since I see nothing behind these hexes either, though they show as 'unknown', so it's quite possible these are enemy occupied.

This means moving from one enemy ZOC to another, so MP costs are high (though I have enough) and there's the possibility of a disengagement attack by the Germans on the first move (German ZOC to German ZOC) and any possible subsequent move to another empty hex either NW (2VPs) or NE. My Recce value is high at 42% and enemy units are pretty tired.

My Q is whether friendly artillery in range will help, because if so- and it's a critical and drop-dead breakthrough- I'd move as much arty as I need up to get it in range to support the attempt, but if not I'd leave the arty in place and use in Round 1 combats in Direct Fire Support of other combats, which of course if I move these arty units is no longer an option. I'd already pack the hex with 23,11 armor unit in it with other units to exploit as combats left and right permit, so that's a given and the unit wouldn't be jumping off leaving an empty hex- displayed this way for clarity (I hope).

The manual mentions arty supporting disengagement in 'Retreat before Combat', but that's as it relates to units being attacked by the player whose turn it is- for example in this case the German units that got retreated here could have benefited. But it doesn't seem to mention whether it works in the manner described above for the player whose turn it is.

Any help appreciated.

It depends (can you tell I'm a programmer)[8|]

The short answer is that artillery doesn't affect your chances, but it does affect the damage you'll take. Adding recce units to the hex you're leaving does help.

I may also be wrong about this, since I didn't do any testbeds, but looked at the code instead which may not do what I said.

Disengagement depends on a large number of factors in addition to what's in the manual. Disengagement is the process that causes the casualties in retreats, RBC (Retreat before combat) and disengagements, although there are slight differences. Airmobile has different rules.

First, there's a chance that you can just slip by, that depends on the following factors.

Special forces can always slip through, riverines have a 90% chance, and the rest of these cases are in the manual I believe.

If you have a big enough Recce scrren (including helicopters) compared to the opforce, then you may slip by. The recce screen includes any recce units in the hex that you are leaving.

If you have a big enough movement allowance compared to the opforce adjacent to you, then you may slip by.

If you fail those, you can still get by, but you'll take damage which depends on the relative gound, recce, air and artillery strength.

I also posted that here, and I'll update it if I'm wrong.
http://www.operationalwarfare.com/post/ ... ement.aspx

Ralph, do you think it would be difficult to add disengagement to ship vs ship units and ship vs coastal artillery units?
This would go some way to fix the unrealistic behavior when ships may run ring around enemy ships without any penalty.

Erik

I ususally simply move another unit there, which seems to help, most of the time there is no 'disengagement', unless there is distinctive difference in strenght.

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

It depends (can you tell I'm a programmer)[8|]

The short answer is that artillery doesn't affect your chances, but it does affect the damage you'll take. Adding recce units to the hex you're leaving does help.

Errr, definitely yes.

TVM- that sorts a decision, since the arty won't affect the % CHANCE of getting hit, which is what I'd need to decide to divert 60-odd arty points to help here.

It's opportunity cost, because in moving them I can't use them in direct fire support of my 100% turn remaining at start and following rounds, just indirectly where they're at half strength and empirically IME more than half as effective in support of ground combats.

If the unit gets hit, however softly with supporting arty- all it does to help- to soften the blow, its recce value will decrease making further advance more difficult, perhaps impossible. So best to use the arty to focus on widening the gap in direct fire support of ground combats.

It's something of an extreme example I've not been up against before, mainly because I've never had to consider if such a vast amount of arty firepower could conceivably influence the odds in a significant way- usually in (defensively) retreating I just do the best I can to skedaddle with arty/HQ/recce screening support, in (offensively) advancing through a line I just grin and bear it and take the hit if the goal is (or seems) worth it.

ORIGINAL: Karri

I usually simply move another unit there, which seems to help, most of the time there is no 'disengagement', unless there is distinctive difference in strength.

I suppose if you're playing those scenarios set up there in the Finnish forests, there's little need to worry about interlocking ZOCs, since you can often slip through anywhere...