Matrix Games Forums

I'm hoping someone can help me understand some of the information in the army lists in the Storm of Arrows expansion.

For example, I'm looking at the War of the Roses (Richard III) army.

1. What do the large PD and S icons next to some of the troops mean?
2. What does the checkmark mean when I click on PD?
3. When I move the mouse over the troop name or S icon of the 'Royal guard men-at-arms' or 'Men-at-arms' troops, some of the information about them changes, e.g. Royal guard men-at-arms changes to drilled from blank, and the close combat changes to heavy weapon, experience changes, Type changes. What does this mean?
4. How can I tell what troops can deploy archer stakes, and how do I use them? Can only armies created with D.A.G use archer stakes, or are there some pre-made scenarios that you can use them in?
5. General army question - what good is a baggage camp? Do you have to put one in your army when you make your own army? Otherwise, what is the use of it and why would you put one in your army?

Thanks for any help. This is an awesome game, but I have never played the tabletop game, so the army generator is completely foreign to me.

-=Jeff

ORIGINAL: jglazier
1. What do the large PD and S icons next to some of the troops mean?

PD stands of Positional Defense....Stakes. S is to convert Knights from mounted to unmounted.

2. What does the checkmark mean when I click on PD?

It means you can buy missile units that can use stakes. You deploy them in the game.

3. When I move the mouse over the troop name or S icon of the 'Royal guard men-at-arms' or 'Men-at-arms' troops, some of the information about them changes, e.g. Royal guard men-at-arms changes to drilled from blank, and the close combat changes to heavy weapon, experience changes, Type changes. What does this mean?

It shows the values for Knights that are mounted or dismounted.

4. How can I tell what troops can deploy archer stakes, and how do I use them? Can only armies created with D.A.G use archer stakes, or are there some pre-made scenarios that you can use them in?

They have the PD indicated on the chart. Not sure about the second part of your question.

5. General army question - what good is a baggage camp? Do you have to put one in your army when you make your own army? Otherwise, what is the use of it and why would you put one in your army?

Not sure but I guess they are there for historical purposes.

Hope this helps a little. I haven't played around with the SoA DAG so these are off-the-cuff answers I've gleaned from other postings. Maybe someone else with more knowledge can fill in the info.

Thanks. This does help a lot. I would still like more details about how to use this stuff. Why isn't all this in the instruction manual? How are people new to this game supposed to understand all this?

1. What do the large PD and S icons next to some of the troops mean?

PD - If you select & "pay for" that when you build your army, the unit can deploy stakes. To deploy the stakes, right click on the unit. Once stakes are deployed, the unit must pick them up (right click) before they can move again. They take one full move to deploy or pick up. Once stakes are deployed, your unit is immobile.

Stakes are a useful defense against a mounted charge, but not of much use otherwise. Typically, English archers would deploy stakes. Some experienced FOG players won't buy stakes with their archers since they feel its not worth the added unit cost. If you feel your opponent will be using mounted knights against your archers and your army will be fighting from a defensive stance, then stakes might be a decent option to have.

The "S" icon means the unit (knights) can fight mounted or dismounted and you select this when you first deploy them. Right click on the unit during deployment to select mounted or not for the battle.

Typically, English knights fought dismounted, distributed among the other foot troops. Later on, at least some French knights did likewise. Just depends on how you want to fight with your army as to how many and which units you want mounted or dismounted.

2. What does the checkmark mean when I click on PD?

That your unit will have stakes and you paid the added cost for the unit.

4. How can I tell what troops can deploy archer stakes, and how do I use them? Can only armies created with D.A.G use archer stakes, or are there some pre-made scenarios that you can use them in?

Once you are in the battle, right click on the unit. If they can deploy stakes, you'll see the option to do so. I think some SOA pre-made scenarios have archers that can deploy stakes... just depends on how the scenario maker set up the unit.

5. General army question - what good is a baggage camp? Do you have to put one in your army when you make your own army? Otherwise, what is the use of it and why would you put one in your army?

Baggage camp isn't of much real use; its just there for historical purposes. Baggage (supplies) usually accompanied armies and were close to the units, so its just part of the setup. You can attack your enemy's baggage camp for points, so they play some role. I think baggage camps are required for at least some armies. Typically, I won't buy a baggage unit unless I'm forced to by the army rules... they are just a target.



The historical scenarios are OK, but limiting since FOG is much more than that. Basically, FOG is all about building an army to suit your fighting style then using the various units to best effect against various opponent armies. Different units have different strengths and weaknesses, creating an army of different fighting styles, but there is no single "best" structure for any army. The fun is trying many different armies and unit mixes then seeing which armies and structures you like best.

To start out, keep your armies to 400 points to get a feel for its basics and a quick battle. Then, as you progress, use larger armies... 600 then 800 points etc. Once you try the larger armies, you'll know if you just want more of the same units (same mix, just larger armies) or want to add some of the more exotic or expensive units that might be available for it.

Also, try your army against various, even non-historical, opponents. Try Republican Romans vs Medieval English for example.


Check this site

http://www.madaxeman.com/wiki2/tiki-index.php

for lots of information about the various armies and structures, but keep in mind that this site is covering the FOG tabletop game, NOT the PC game. The army lists are for the TT game, but you'll get ideas on how to set up an army in various ways.

ORIGINAL: jglazier

I would still like more details about how to use this stuff.

Basically....

- Heavy Foot is slow but deadly. They melee hand-to-hand in formation. Roman legions are a prime example of this.

- Medium Foot is like HF, but its staying power isn't usually as good and they don't stand as well vs heavy cavalry.

- Light Foot are like gnats... they nibble and annoy. They can be used to distract on the flanks after the armies have closed. They can engage and try to take out the enemy's LF and archers/slingers etc.

- Heavy Cavalry is a shock force. You want them to charge, attack, disengage, reform and charge again. Since they are more mobile, you can use them for flank attacks or to break through a line and then charge the enemy's rear. If used well, they can be decisive.

- Cavalry... like HC, but not as "heavy".

- Light Cavalry is like LF... gnats to annoy and nibble. They can be useful in engaging the enemy's archers. The Parthian mounted archers are nearly impossible to pin down and defeat, but take patience and understanding of their fighting style to use well.

- Archers and other "shoot" troops are the ones that, as the armies close, you use to begin to break down your opponent's main battle force. Concentrate your fire, if you can, and cause losses to opponent's main foot or main mounted forces. If possible, get Disrupted or Fragmented results... that will considerably weaken the enemy's force for when the main battle forces collide. I don't use archers vs archers... I'll let my light troops clear out the enemy archers, particularly when I have light cavalry. The medieval French though would often target some of their mounted knights first against the enemy archers.

- Elephants are useful to disrupt the main battle line, but keep them away from cavalry. Support elephants with your foot troops. If they route, though, they can nearly collapse your own line, so leave them a way out.

- Guns and other artillery are of little use in an open field battle. They don't fire fast enough and historically were mostly siege weapons. They were used in open field battles, but didn't usually accomplish much. Same in FOG.

- Other exotic troops... fun to use, but mostly not of great or decisive effect.

How are people new to this game supposed to understand all this?

I just try different things and see what happens. A DAG battle vs the AI can be done quickly, so its pretty easy to try different things. Other than that... ask questions.

Thanks jdew, thanks Dave! This is extremely helpful stuff. I will start making my own armies and see how it goes. I've just been playing scenarios since I got the game last week, and am having a blast just doing that. I'm getting creamed, but so what, it's fun as hell.

Just a couple follow-up questions. Once you deploy Knights either mounted or unmounted, are you stuck with that for the rest of the game? Probably so.

Is the computer version a pretty accurate recreation of the tabletop game? Or is the tabletop game much more involved? Obvioulsy you're calculating and rolling everything on your own, but other than that is there anything that was left out of the computer version?

-=Jeff

Yes, once you deploy knights unmounted, there's no option to re-mount them.

In real life, if the knights & men-at-arms never had any intention of fighting mounted, they would have ridden a palfry (the riding horse) to the field, leaving the destrier (the fighting horse) at home. If destriers were present but the men were to fight on foot today, the destrier would not have been prepared for battle but held with the other mounts far enough to the rear so as not to become a target. From time to time, even the English would have some men mounted as a mobile reserve or striking force, so don't think all English must always fight on foot. As side-note, the English hobilars usually fought on foot as well.

From what I've seen the PC game is a reasonable presentation of the TT game. There are some differences (intentional by the developers)... they weren't simply porting over a TT game, so made some additions and changes to make a better PC game. The largest difference is, I think, the basing of units (BG... battle group)... the TT army lists do not equate 1 to 1 to the PC game.

Also, the PC game has each unit assigned a number of men (500, 1000, etc) which is causing some confusion... as I understand it, a BG's strength and losses are always expressed in the FOG system as a percentage. So a BG of "500 men" at 50% is in the same state as a BG of "1000 men" at 50%... its the 50% that's important.