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January 1933 Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher forms and maintains a parliamentary majority. Hitler never comes to power.

May of 1936 Marshal Mikhail N. Tukhachevskiy and his associates attempt a coup against Stalin and successfully remove him from power. After the coup he is assured of the support of the Soviet Army and Navy. There is never a purge of the Soviet military.

July 1936 the Soviet Union and Germany form an alliance against the Western powers, France and Britain.

Now although this may sound crazy it was a real possibility. Marshall Tukhachevskiy had wanted this very thing. If he had come to power and Hitler had been thwarted it may well have been.

What would have become of Italy? Would it have become a Facist state? Which side would they have alligned with?

What would a war with a Soviet/German Alliance have been like for France and Britain? Who would have fired the first shot? Would the Allies have tried to appease the Germans and Soviets as they did Hitler? What about Japan?

We'll never know for sure but this is one of the grandest what ifs for that period of time I know of. Except for the plotting of a couple of people it may well have been.

Italy was afaik already a facist state.

Mmm, I wonder why this is in the TOAW thread. I suppose it is your sneaky & clever way of asking someone else to create the scenario for you, but without you physically asking for it

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Mmm, I wonder why this is in the TOAW thread. I suppose it is your sneaky & clever way of asking someone else to create the scenario for you, but without you physically asking for it

Take it for what it is, just a question about a possibility of an alternative universe. No need for you to dwell on a supposed intent of the posting . . . after all, no one is twisting your arm to make a new scenario.
Regards, RhinoBones

Well, there was already alot of Soviet-German cooperation pre-33. Also, without Hitler, it is unlikeley Germany would openly flout the Versaille treaty regarding military size limits (hence the 1920's agreements, infact).

Also, I don't really see what benefit Germany would have for an anti western alliance in these circumstances, nor do I see what use they would be to the Soviet union without a remilitarization program.

Italy was already Fascist, but without a strong European Ally it is unlikley they would do much more then mess arround in Abyssinia, and Japan would still be at war with China, though one suspects that they wouldn't even dream of going on a Pacific rampage when the UK and France are not fighting any European conflict at all.


Basically, there is no real likleyhood of a war, hence no need for a scenario :p

Germany and the Soviet Union had the Treaty of Rapallo signed in 1922. Hitler dissolved it.

They also had a common enemy each was eager to eliminate, Poland.

Both looked upon France and Britain as a pair of common foes.

The Treaty of Versaille was hated in Germany and was bound to be broken.

The Soviet Union saw Britain as enemy number one until Hitler's rise to power. During the 'War Scare' of 1927 the supposed foe was France and Britain.

The Treaty of Rapallo was Germany's rearmament program and a breaking of the Treaty of Versaille.

Perhaps Marshal Tukhachevskiy would have been the catalyst. A Soviet Bonapart as some have suggested.