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How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:39 am
by vinnie71
One of my main 'problems' as an Allied player is how to use the Aircobra. It seems to be a sturdy enough fighter but is really a sitting duck for Japanese guns. The P-400 with 20 mm gun is a bit better and I have used it with decent results in the front lines. Its a pity that such a numerous fighter just sits there...
So how do you use the Aircobras (original version)?
Are later versions of '43 any better?
Truth is that for now I only employ them either as trainers or as CAP over ports which only Japanese bombers without escorts can reach. So any other ideas?
Thanks in advance!
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:59 am
by Mundy
If no better fighters are available, you gotta make do. They've been handled roughly all the way back to UV.
Personally, I treat them like Skyraiders (or Maulers [:D]), and use them as a less vulnerable strike plane.
Ed-
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:05 am
by EUBanana
They make good bomber stoppers, a bit like the Beaufighter. Beaufighters are pretty bad fighters but awesome bomber slaughterers, Airacobras arent quite as good but they do murder Netties very well.
I've tried strafing with them but they don't seem to do much. Maybe against barges the big gun will work.
And as has been said, you gotta make do.
There is actually a need for training a/c in AE, so I suspect that is what I'll be using Airacobras for in the later war- filling up west coast training squadrons.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:12 am
by Feltan
I have had a few squadrons of them in Port Moresby through 1943, and they have actually given a fair accounting of themselves. They will not be considered by me to be top notch airframes; however, if you scramble a few dozen to handle an incoming raid the Japanese might disagree with my own appraisal.
Regards,
Feltan
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:12 am
by Mundy
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
There is actually a need for training a/c in AE, so I suspect that is what I'll be using Airacobras for in the later war- filling up west coast training squadrons.
Which is entirely historical. If I remember correctly, in his autobiography, Yeager mentions being trained for fighters in them.
They were definitely a step up from the Wirraways, before they got bomberized. (I always thought an "emergency CAP" option would have been nice for light bombers. You'll pay dearly against escorts, but if you have nothing else...)
It's a pity the 39's performance wasn't that hot at altitude. I always thought it was one of the nicest looking aircraft of the war. Very clean lines.
Ed-
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:21 pm
by Sardaukar
ORIGINAL: Mundy
ORIGINAL: EUBanana
There is actually a need for training a/c in AE, so I suspect that is what I'll be using Airacobras for in the later war- filling up west coast training squadrons.
They were definitely a step up from the Wirraways, before they got bomberized. (I always thought an "emergency CAP" option would have been nice for light bombers. You'll pay dearly against escorts, but if you have nothing else...)
Ed-
This would be bit similar to USN doctrine of using Dauntlesse as anti-torpedo bomber CAP/screen. In fact, quite a few IJN carrier attack planes were shot down by SBDs.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:43 pm
by Mundy
That's pretty much what I had in mind. Like I said, one should pay dearly for this if "real" fighters are about (unless your name is Vejtasa).
The Aussies have nothing, otherwise at the start.
Ed-
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:57 pm
by WLockard
P-39s have better stats than P-40Es.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:22 pm
by vonSchnitter
Just a few pieces of historical fact:
The p-39 was designed around a 37mm cannon - an oldsmobile adaptation of a rather common gun. The low velocity 37mm gun was fancied as a pretty potent bomber buster - repeat facied.
Without reference to the finer points: The p-39 used pretty much the same power plant and fineries as the contemporary p-40s - with pretty much the same performance parameters.
When offered as lend-lease to the RAF the same rejected the P-39 pretty much out of hand - if need be I think I have the RAF evaluation report somewhere - but from recollection mostly because of inferior climb rate and service ceiling - there was a little less ocean between GB and the continent at the time - and the limeys accepeted a compromise (replacing the 37mm with a 20mm Oerlikon type gun of similar design (low muzzle velocity) of BoB vintage 109s.
Well. I just guess you have some recollection of the the P-40s fate in Europe/Med ? Right, a fighter bomber. Used by the RAF for the lack of Hurries in theater which could haul bombs and had the extra punch of 20mm cannon when strafing.
Or simply put: the RAF considered the P-39 and the P-40 as mostly inferior to their own designs.
Short of some "Checker Tail" PR - pretty close to the Flying Tigers stuff - the RAF got it rght,
Anyway: The 20mm P-39 designs for the RAF ended up as P-400s in SWPac - minus their RAF Oxygen supply bottle connections and refill system - alien to the AAF - which limited them to an altitude below 12000 ft.
Using them on strafing runs with low exp pilots is an option.
The P-39Ds and onward versions went mostly to Russia on LendLease. Guess what - some of the highest scoring russian aces - got there in P-39s.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:54 pm
by DeriKuk
I've tried strafing with them but they don't seem to do much.
I've had some success in getting them to strafe submarines. It may not sink the sub, but it keeps it honest.
Otherwise, the P39s go to the CONUS to flesh out the training squadrons of the IV HQs, freeing up other types for front-line fighting. The Allied player should constantly shuffle obsolescent crates to training duties, while keeping the fighting groups supplied with the best available airframes.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:13 pm
by crsutton
They also work for barge inteception where you have local air superiority. Set them at 100 feet and keep them close at hand and they will on occasion intercept those pesky barges and shoot them up pretty well. Unfortunately, it seems that you have to have strafing skills up near 70 for this to happen regularly. Kind of silly really. Otherwise, once I get other aircraft types they are used for training. They are also excellent for CAP in rear bases beyond enemy escort range. They will, as mentioned, tear up unescorted bombers.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:37 pm
by Xxzard
Then of course, even buffaloes tear up unescorted bombers. But you do get quite a lot of the p-39's so best use them for something.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:46 pm
by vinnie71
Good. I seem to be on the same wavelength as most. The strafing run could be a nice option.
What about later mark Aircobras? Are they any good as fighters?
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:57 pm
by John Lansford
I used mine in places like Darwin, where the Bettys would show up unescorted, and against shipping traffic and for ground support. Sending them up as interceptors or CAP is just asking for trouble unless they're all you've got. It's late '44 in my game now and I've still got a few P-39 squadrons I use for ground support.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:05 pm
by Nemo121
The other usage for P-39s is as the low group in a high-low sandwich to counter sweeping Zeroes. It is tough on the P-39s but, overall, it allows the combination of P-39s and P-40s to get 1.5 to 2 : 1 kill ratios vs Zeroes and Oscars. Just last turn in my game vs Mike I shot down something like 19 Zeroes and 11 Bettys in return for 4 P-39/P-400s and one P-40B through use of the high-low sandwich approach.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:10 pm
by Sheytan
But the Russians loved them from what I have read. Believe it or not I actually use them for naval attack set to 100 feet.
ORIGINAL: vonSchnitter
Just a few pieces of historical fact:
The p-39 was designed around a 37mm cannon - an oldsmobile adaptation of a rather common gun. The low velocity 37mm gun was fancied as a pretty potent bomber buster - repeat facied.
Without reference to the finer points: The p-39 used pretty much the same power plant and fineries as the contemporary p-40s - with pretty much the same performance parameters.
When offered as lend-lease to the RAF the same rejected the P-39 pretty much out of hand - if need be I think I have the RAF evaluation report somewhere - but from recollection mostly because of inferior climb rate and service ceiling - there was a little less ocean between GB and the continent at the time - and the limeys accepeted a compromise (replacing the 37mm with a 20mm Oerlikon type gun of similar design (low muzzle velocity) of BoB vintage 109s.
Well. I just guess you have some recollection of the the P-40s fate in Europe/Med ? Right, a fighter bomber. Used by the RAF for the lack of Hurries in theater which could haul bombs and had the extra punch of 20mm cannon when strafing.
Or simply put: the RAF considered the P-39 and the P-40 as mostly inferior to their own designs.
Short of some "Checker Tail" PR - pretty close to the Flying Tigers stuff - the RAF got it rght,
Anyway: The 20mm P-39 designs for the RAF ended up as P-400s in SWPac - minus their RAF Oxygen supply bottle connections and refill system - alien to the AAF - which limited them to an altitude below 12000 ft.
Using them on strafing runs with low exp pilots is an option.
The P-39Ds and onward versions went mostly to Russia on LendLease. Guess what - some of the highest scoring russian aces - got there in P-39s.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:17 pm
by Capt. Harlock
But the Russians loved them from what I have read.
Very true. In fact, that's why they came out with the P-63 King Cobra. (Nobody but the Soviets wanted them.)
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:25 pm
by Nemo121
Quite a bit of that had to do with Soviet fighter doctrine and the close support nature of a lot of the fighting there. If you were going to be doing a lot of strafing then something with a 37mm cannon would be damned useful.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:13 pm
by crsutton
Nemo has it here. The later version of the P39 the redesigned king cobra was an excellent "hot" little fighter and the Soviets were the prime beneficiaries of this plane. The US army really had no need for a short legged fighter in 1944 which was the biggest defect of the P-39s and later variants. The P-39 did not have the range to project air power very far into enemy air space. The air force had long range plans and wanted long range fighters.
RE: How to use the Aircobras?
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:49 am
by jazman
I believe the Russians stripped out the wing guns (four of 'em) to improve maneuverability. They also liked to fly at lower altitudes and "turn 'n burn" and do ground support, and the Cobra was suited to that.