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I have reservations about this game and would like some comment from the publisher/developer. I have enjoyed many Grigsby games from back in the SSI days. Having said that, I have to wonder how much of a re-hash this new east front game is of the two old Grigsby east front games I already own. The historical OOB, map and economic data was done years ago. Any refinements are easily acquired by picking up a copy of Fire in the East and Scorched Earth, or perhaps one of the more recent OOB books. So just what new is being added other than slick graphics and a new UI? And how can it be worth more than a modest sum?

It's a rehash of those games to the extent that the cars you buy today are a rehash of the model T.

I see nothing new in the WitE Q&A thread or the advertisements. If something has been improved then please be specific. "New programming" is not an answer.

I still have both of the old DOS games and get the second one out and fiddle with it occasionally. A better UI will be welcome.

Solops - read the testers comments on the game, and the AAR's.   We love it - we loved WiR too, but we think this is waaaaayyyyy better.  

Yeah, best bet is to take a look at the AARs.

I own all these other games and regard them as relics compared to WitE. There's simply no comparison. WitE has ruined them for me and I could never play them again.

Although Fire in the East/Scorched Earth retain considerable nostalgia value and are very pretty look at. They're collector's items and objets d'art.

ORIGINAL: solops

"New programming" is not an answer.

That you don't like the answer is fine, but it is an answer. And to me it is a sign of good things to come.

The historical OOB, map and economic data was done years ago.

hmm..

WitE is an IGOUGO game instead of a si-plot game like the older War in Russia games. As far as the data, it is much more accurate than the data in those earlier games. The information available in the 80s and early 90s was primitive compared to what we had access to now. So the data and map are better. The scale of the game is different so the game feels much bigger, and the detail is even greater.

and i have to add the administrative point system that make not possible some unrealistic and not-doable war-operations that are possible in previous games, well, almost is an innovatibe rule for me, it remember me some boardgames about east front eurofront and west front from columbia games with headquarters units that takes losses to activate units, so, onwards, i dont seen previously this system in pc wargames, and it will change the theater of operations forever, some other examples comes to mind, allowed to say, example given, to compare war in the east with war in rusia may be as comparing europa universalis 1 with hearts of iron, or heroes of might and magic 1 with his 3rd or 4th incarnation, yes, is the same theme, is the same theater of operations but completely different games, it is as i see this game coming, in virtue of some years of development, well, as statement make on wargamer, it is under development from year 2000, plus added to it, i dont see nowadays too many wargames with the detail and features this game will have, at conclusion a must have for any grognard of wargames, and even aside it, is good, very good to have, in example more than only one version of a given war conflict, in example 3 or 4 games about normandy landings or battle of the bulge/ardennes, at last, each game will have things that will keep the player/user playing all of them, just my oppinion,
 
excuse my poor english and have my best regards,
 
Murat30.

I have a feeling that this game to WiR will be similar to WiTp-AE to Pacwar.  Maybe not quite that big of a gulf, but enough to say, "This is not the same game, in any way."

If Matrix offered to do a revamp of WiR with some feature upgrades and general modernisation, wouldn't you support that? If you would, everything else is just icing!

Bit of an odd question though, isn't it?
How much of a remake is this?

Well, theoretically any game done after 1945 will be a remake of the original event. And any game done after that will be a remake to some extent of the first game, and so on, and so forth.
There are basic facts that can't be changed. The game takes place in Russia (surprise!), the Germans will be attacking eastwards using armor and aircraft to punch through, etc.
So the game will obviously be comparable to WiR when it comes to content.
If you're a fan of WiR, and enjoy that game, that's perfectly fine. In that case I'd wait for WitE to be released (presumably a demo will be forthcoming too), read through what people are posting about it, and then make up my mind as to whether it introduces enough new stuff to warrant the price.
If it doesn't, no harm done.

But there's a natural evolution in gaming as in any other business.
I never touched Silent Hunter II after SH III surfaced (so to speak), and I'm pretty sure that as soon as CM: Normandy hits that I'll never fire up CMBO again. Same thing with Squad Leader vs. ASL.
They're basically the same games, yes; but they look so much better, and are so much easier to play that it simply isn't a contest.
Now, WitE will cost you a sizable chunk of your gaming-budget, no doubt about that.
But the question whether there's enough difference between WitE and WiR to warrant more than 'a modest sum' is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Personally, had Matrix announced they were doing a 'remake' of WiR, I would've simply passed it by.
WitE on the other hand is, again for me, the most anticipated game in a few years.
I'm getting to be as sad as the people in other threads nearly begging Matrix to release this beauty. [&o]

Guys, really, there's very little in common between WiR and WitE besides the subject. This isn't a mere remake or sequel, it's a totally different game.

It has the feel of the old monster boardgame classics, without their limitations. As much as I enjoyed WiR or Second Front, neither game ever quite evoked that same feeling.

ORIGINAL: solops
So just what new is being added other than slick graphics and a new UI? And how can it be worth more than a modest sum?

I would have thought that a casual view of the thousands of comments and many pages of information on this forum would have shown that WiTE is much more than just a re-work of WIR. I personally think that WIR is one of the best games ever produced, my main fear is that WiTE could be too big to play in a reasonable timescale. Either way, we will know in a few days. [:)]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
<SNIP>

I personally think that WIR is one of the best games ever produced, my main fear is that WiTE could be too big to play in a reasonable tinescale.

People here at Matrix play UV / WitP / WitP-AE for years (the UV was released in 2002 [:)]) and many many of them finished PBEMs with hundreads of PBEM turns and which lasted years (literally)!

Not to mention countless UV / WitP / WitP-AE games vs. AI that were also finished.


Therefore I have no doubt in my mind that 225 turns of great campaign in WitE will be playable and achievable in both PBAM and vs. AI!!!


Leo "Apollo11"

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
<SNIP>

I personally think that WIR is one of the best games ever produced, my main fear is that WiTE could be too big to play in a reasonable tinescale.

People here at Matrix play UV / WitP / WitP-AE for years (the UV was released in 2002 [:)]) and many many of them finished PBEMs with hundreads of PBEM turns and which lasted years (literally)!

Not to mention countless UV / WitP / WitP-AE games vs. AI that were also finished.


Therefore I have no doubt in my mind that 225 turns of great campaign in WitE will be playable and achievable in both PBAM and vs. AI!!!


Leo "Apollo11"

I could never understand how people could finish a WITP/WITP:AE campaign. I can not make it to a year without restarting. I think what people want to know is how long would it take us to finish a full campaign in WITHE. Seems like a silly question, I guess you could do one turn a day. However, I doubt each turn takes as long as a WITP:AE turn.

Also remember the smaller scenarios (AGN, AGC & AGS), plus the individual campaigns as well - should make a game easily playable in even a few hours (definitely less than a day).

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: jjax

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
<SNIP>

I personally think that WIR is one of the best games ever produced, my main fear is that WiTE could be too big to play in a reasonable tinescale.

People here at Matrix play UV / WitP / WitP-AE for years (the UV was released in 2002 [:)]) and many many of them finished PBEMs with hundreads of PBEM turns and which lasted years (literally)!

Not to mention countless UV / WitP / WitP-AE games vs. AI that were also finished.


Therefore I have no doubt in my mind that 225 turns of great campaign in WitE will be playable and achievable in both PBAM and vs. AI!!!

I could never understand how people could finish a WITP/WITP:AE campaign. I can not make it to a year without restarting. I think what people want to know is how long would it take us to finish a full campaign in WITHE. Seems like a silly question, I guess you could do one turn a day. However, I doubt each turn takes as long as a WITP:AE turn.

IMHO with good PBEM opponent who is in your timezone you can do at least 1 turn per day in WitE PBEMs (and many times even 2 or 3) and you can, of course, do much more if you are playing against AI!

Thus 225 turns for grand campaign 1941-1945 doesn't seem much for PBEM (6 months seems like very achievable goal)!!! [;)]


Leo "Apollo11"

Just getting server based PBEM warrants a purchase, imho.

Of course, the game is also completely different in every way from WIR:

- New graphics
- New OOB / unit stats
- New game system (IGo-UGo vs. WeGo)
- New AI
- New server-based PBEM system
- New map with more detailed scale
- More scenarios

And more stuff...

I think I could do a solo 41-5 campaign in about two months. I've speed tested 80 turns in as little as a week.

PBEM would take longer. A lot longer.

Bob and I knocked off 6 months of the 43 campaign in 3 weeks or so, and we both play fast. That works out to at least a half year to PBEM the entire war.