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Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:21 pm
by sanderz
The manual says that any unit in refit mode has its morale upped to 50. On the other hand there doesn't seem to be any downside to putting a unit in refit mode - i would have thought that combat and movement ratings would be lower or something.
Can anyone explain the ups and downs of refit mode as i feel like i am missing something here
thanks
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:28 pm
by Flaviusx
This really depends on your replacement situation.
If replacements are plentiful, then there's no reason to restrict yourself and you should go ahead and use refits freely. As the Soviet player in 1941, I do just that. Later on in the war, manpower drops considerably (even though equipment production surges) and you have to be much more picky about refits. Keeping the rifle forces starts becoming quite a challenge from 43 onwards.
In the 43 scenario my practice is to leave mobile and artillery units on permanent refit status to give them priority on replacements. All else is left on normal. This starves the rifle forces of reinforcements and allows you to build up a reserve. Then you can draw down on that piggy bank to reinforce selected rifle forces in active fronts by putting those on refit for a turn or two, and then return them to normal setting.
For the German things are more complicated. Replacements are limited from the getgo and you must use the refit setting with care. The Germans should also probably make extensive use of the TOE settings, which allows you to lower unit TOE down to as little as 50% on quiet portions of the front, to concentrate replacements elsewhere.
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:48 pm
by henri51
How can I tell if a unit is on refit mode or not? In the Minsk scenario, present either button doesn't highlight anything that I can see.
Henri
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:01 pm
by Flaviusx
When you click on a unit, the right hand part of the screen will show the selected unit (or stack of units.)
The unit's status will be displayed below the counter. Default mode is ready, it could also be unready, refit, reserve, or static.
The Commander's Report will also display unit status.
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:02 pm
by Erik Rutins
Henri51,
There is also a button on the top to display unit mode. If this is on, when you have no units selected, you'll see a highlight around each unit counter that is in Refit.
Regards,
- Erik
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:47 pm
by Krec
Refit is just a way to say which units will try and get the replacements. Refit doesnt affect combat, so you can have a unit in the front lines set to refit and its ok, now weather it gets those replacments is another story because the unit is so far forward. A unit that is closer to the back and with good rail lines has a much better chance of getting them.
Thats my understanding anyway.[:'(]
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:10 pm
by sanderz
thanks for info guys
however the thing that seems most odd is the minimum morale of 50 whilst in refit mode - seems like a bit of an exploit????
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:41 pm
by ComradeP
In addition to the unit status possibilities Flavio has indicated, a unit can also be depleted, in which case it will dislocate when an enemy combat unit moves next it.
I have strong opinions about placing your entire army on refit as the Soviets being the cheese of cheeses when it comes to cheesy behaviour, as it more or less nullifies their morale problems in just a handful of turns (units on refit gain morale when below 50, and the majority of Soviet formations are at least somewhat below 50 at the start of the 1941 campaign). I'm also a micromanagement enthusiast, so I prefer to control where my replacements go more directly than just placing the entire army on refit. Having all units on refit should also mean it will take forever to get the newly raised divisions up to strength, and you need those divisions to be at worst unready when near the frontline, not at best unready.
The Axis will have to juggle with TOE settings and disbanding stuff they don't need (the Soviets can do so too, but opinions vary widely on what to disband: Flavio loves motorcycle regiments, I disband them ASAP).
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:43 pm
by FredSanford3
I agree on the 'refit' at all times being cheesy. I just assumed that a unit in Refit mode would be highly vulnerable to attack (which it would IRL).
ORIGINAL: ComradeP
In addition to the unit status possibilities Flavio has indicated, a unit can also be depleted, in which case it will dislocate when an enemy combat unit moves next it.
I have strong opinions about placing your entire army on refit as the Soviets being the cheese of cheeses when it comes to cheesy behaviour, as it more or less nullifies their morale problems in just a handful of turns (units on refit gain morale when below 50, and the majority of Soviet formations are at least somewhat below 50 at the start of the 1941 campaign). I'm also a micromanagement enthusiast, so I prefer to control where my replacements go more directly than just placing the entire army on refit. Having all units on refit should also mean it will take forever to get the newly raised divisions up to strength, and you need those divisions to be at worst unready when near the frontline, not at best unready.
The Axis will have to juggle with TOE settings and disbanding stuff they don't need (the Soviets can do so too, but opinions vary widely on what to disband: Flavio loves motorcycle regiments, I disband them ASAP).
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:48 pm
by Joel Billings
Refit in WitE is simply a way to flag the unit to give it priority for replacements. In addition, it gives the unit an extra chance to get a small morale increase if it's a very low morale unit (below 50). If you don't really care that manpower will be going to your weakest units first, and don't want to influence where your manpower reserves go, then putting all your units in refit will give you a small boost in morale. That may be a wise thing to do in the early turns when the Soviet army is so weak. However, there will likely come a time where you'll be more interested in feeding replacements into good units than you are giving a small morale boost to your low morale units. There are tradeoffs involved.
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:35 am
by FredSanford3
But if "Refit" doesn't really mean "Refit", but simply 'prioritize replacements', then why have a morale boost? It seems to me that a morale boost would be reasonable if a unit were pulled out of combat, rested, troops get leave and R&R, replacements and training, equipment gets serviced/replaced, etc. You know, a Refit. [;)]
Shoveling raw conscripts into an understrength unit that's actively engaged? I don't see anything in those circumstances to be happy about from the POV of the cannon fodder, um, troops. So what would be the logical basis for the morale boost?
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:08 am
by PyleDriver
I think thats a Soviet boost. Off the line is always get a boost for both sides, Joel mentioned for the Germans it's way we control on line troops as leaders where we would like them to go first...
RE: Any downside to leaving units in Refit mode?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:18 am
by Sheytan
Good tips!
ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
This really depends on your replacement situation.
If replacements are plentiful, then there's no reason to restrict yourself and you should go ahead and use refits freely. As the Soviet player in 1941, I do just that. Later on in the war, manpower drops considerably (even though equipment production surges) and you have to be much more picky about refits. Keeping the rifle forces starts becoming quite a challenge from 43 onwards.
In the 43 scenario my practice is to leave mobile and artillery units on permanent refit status to give them priority on replacements. All else is left on normal. This starves the rifle forces of reinforcements and allows you to build up a reserve. Then you can draw down on that piggy bank to reinforce selected rifle forces in active fronts by putting those on refit for a turn or two, and then return them to normal setting.
For the German things are more complicated. Replacements are limited from the getgo and you must use the refit setting with care. The Germans should also probably make extensive use of the TOE settings, which allows you to lower unit TOE down to as little as 50% on quiet portions of the front, to concentrate replacements elsewhere.