Matrix Games Forums

I posted this earlier, but got no help, so I'm trying again.

I found playing the Race for the Meuse/Bastogne scenarios as the Axis more than challenging, but has anyone done this against the AI and won at least a marginal victory?

I am beginning to wonder if these and some other Bulge scenarios were ever evaluated by the beta testers for balance.

I haven't played Meuse yet.

However, I won decisively Race for Bastogne the first time I tried it, with realistic order delay and without firt reading the scenario's historical background (I prefer doing it this way and reading only Axis commander briefing for maximum surprise and fog of war possible).

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

I posted this earlier, but got no help, so I'm trying again.

I found playing the Race for the Meuse/Bastogne scenarios as the Axis more than challenging, but has anyone done this against the AI and won at least a marginal victory?

I am beginning to wonder if these and some other Bulge scenarios were ever evaluated by the beta testers for balance.

All of the scenarios were tested and balanced by the team. Some were played more than others, but I know Peiper's race for the Meuse was played several times. The AI will try different approaches each game and it is impossible to cater to that in every instance. For example, trying to exit Peiper in Elsenborn Ridge could be impossible depending on where the AI sends the reinforcements - Honsfeld or Rocherath.. Also blowing bridges can upset the balance significantly.

To win big at race for the Meuse, Peiper needs to exit the West edge of the map which is extremely difficult to do. It is perhaps best to hope for doing better than he did (defeated) and be happy with a draw.[;)]

In Race for Bastogne, I have won as Germans several times. Hint: I don't go for Bastogne. Battle for the Roadblocks is a bit tougher as Germans but it can be done.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... In Race for Bastogne, I have won as Germans several times. Hint: I don't go for Bastogne.

Considering the title of the scenario, I find that counter intuitive.

BTW, my bridges weren't built until the afternoon of the 2nd day -- is that typical?

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... In Race for Bastogne, I have won as Germans several times. Hint: I don't go for Bastogne.

Considering the title of the scenario, I find that counter intuitive.

BTW, my bridges weren't built until the afternoon of the 2nd day -- is that typical?

If you "team up" 2 engineers or more to each bridge (only one engineer needs to have the bridge icon) you should see the bridges built by around 4PM on the first day. The engineers need to be grouped together before being given the build command. Do this using the CTRL key or 'rope' them together with the cursor. Filter out all but engineer units before you start to make them easy to select. More Engineers=faster build time.

If you can win the race with 101st Airborne, then go for Bastogne. You should actually at least invest it enough to deny the US the victory points, and exit the rest to the west.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... In Race for Bastogne, I have won as Germans several times. Hint: I don't go for Bastogne.

Considering the title of the scenario, I find that counter intuitive.

BTW, my bridges weren't built until the afternoon of the 2nd day -- is that typical?

If you "team up" 2 engineers or more to each bridge (only one engineer needs to have the bridge icon) you should see the bridges built by around 4PM on the first day ...

I lost a day that I couldn't afford to lose!

As a matter of fact, I achieved a marginal victory in the scenarios "Peiper Crosses the Meuse" and "Race for Bastogne"; in "Peiper Race for the Meuse" I achieved only a marginal defeat.

Please, take into account that the scenarios are balanced at "Realistic". If you play at "Painfully realistic", as I always do, you strongly damage the side that has to exit counters within a limited time (mostly the Germans), and strongly favour the other side (mostly the Allies).

Under these circumstances, you should be satisfied with a Draw as the Germans, and require nothing less than a decisive victory as the Allies.

Besides, complex Move and Exit orders seem not exactly flawless (I beg your pardon Arjuna, don't take offence [:)]), furtherly aggravating the side in movement.

Hope this can be useful.

Just one curiosity Simovitch about bridge building:

1. Does only the presence of engineers count (and not also of other troops, say vanilla infantry)?

2. Do the engineers have to be grouped together, or each may have a separate individual build order? Is there any difference?

3. If an engineers unit is building a bridge, does not the mere presence (within the 500m range from the bridge) of another engineers unit in plain defend status help build the bridge? In other words, do all the engineers units have to explicitly have the bridge building order?

Thanks.

ORIGINAL: johndoesecond

Just one curiosity Simovitch about bridge building:

1. Does only the presence of engineers count (and not also of other troops, say vanilla infantry)?

2. Do the engineers have to be grouped together, or each may have a separate individual build order? Is there any difference?

3. If an engineers unit is building a bridge, does not the mere presence (within the 500m range from the bridge) of another engineers unit in plain defend status help build the bridge? In other words, do all the engineers units have to explicitly have the bridge building order?

1. only Engineer or bridge construction type.
2. You can give separate build orders for the same bridge only if both units have the bridge icon. If an Engineer doesn't have a bridge icon, the command to build a bridge will be grayed out (unavailable).
3. all the engineers units have to explicitly have the bridge building order.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

ORIGINAL: johndoesecond

Just one curiosity Simovitch about bridge building:

1. Does only the presence of engineers count (and not also of other troops, say vanilla infantry)?

2. Do the engineers have to be grouped together, or each may have a separate individual build order? Is there any difference?

3. If an engineers unit is building a bridge, does not the mere presence (within the 500m range from the bridge) of another engineers unit in plain defend status help build the bridge? In other words, do all the engineers units have to explicitly have the bridge building order?

1. only Engineer or bridge construction type.
2. You can give separate build orders for the same bridge only if both units have the bridge icon. If an Engineer doesn't have a bridge icon, the command to build a bridge will be grayed out (unavailable).
3. all the engineers units have to explicitly have the bridge building order.

Great, thanks Simovitch, that clarifies all.

ORIGINAL: Renato

As a matter of fact, I achieved a marginal victory in the scenarios "Peiper Crosses the Meuse" and "Race for Bastogne"; in "Peiper Race for the Meuse" I achieved only a marginal defeat ...

I've replayed that scenario: after (temporarilly) securing Stavelot, my units moved West to Trois Pont, but when the nearest bridge was blown, they had to back-track and move further South for another crossing.

With less than a day to go, Pfeiffer's advance guard is both blocked from its exit and cut-off from supply while the remainder of my forces are either defending a crossing without holding it, or are strung-out along a highway w/o supply.

Very impressive AI indeed, even at "Realistic" settings.

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

I've replayed that scenario: after (temporarilly) securing Stavelot, my units moved West to Trois Pont, but when the nearest bridge was blown, they had to back-track and move further South for another crossing ...

I also replayed the scenario as the Allies: the Germans seemed to be at Stavelot and Trois Ponts at the same time!

It was a tough struggle as Axis units seemed to be all over the map, but not in force: I got a marginal victory probably because I didn't have enought time to retake Stavelot.

ORIGINAL: simovitch

... If you can win the race with 101st Airborne, then go for Bastogne. You should actually at least invest it enough to deny the US the victory points, and exit the rest to the west.

I fullfilled the Axis exit requirements, surrounded -- but did not take -- Bastogne while destroying twice as many enemy personnel and AFVs, yet I only rated a marginal defeat!