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Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:51 pm
by Zoetermeer
I'm starting to think the all-out drive for Leningrad in '41 as Axis is the best strategy (recommended by many others here). In my game, I almost did it before the winter hit in '41 (had flanked the Volkhov line and had units within a few hexes of the third Ladoga supply port), and actually managed to isolate Leningrad DURING the blizzard by transferring two mountain divisions from AGS up to 56th Panzer Corps, and using them to capture the third port. Once you link up with the Finns, you can use them for a very strong defense in the north during the blizzard. I think now all I have to do is wait out the blizzard and let the Leningrad defenders starve until better weather, when I can reduce the city and then turn the northern front into a static one manned by a mixture of Finnish and German units. This will free up a lot of forces for a final push on Moscow and/or the Donetz basin.
Anybody else been able to do something like this?
RE: Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:29 pm
by Klydon
I need to rework my strategy on Leningrad. I have been a believer on "Leningrad first" as something the Germans should have done. There are a lot of good things that come from it imo.
What I have seen most do recently is either the short right hook or the big right hook. (Short right hook to me is an attack up the Volkov river line to get to the ports, but the terrain there is bad). Big right hook is cutting the rail line to the east of Tikhvin to put the entire area out of supply. This latter move is tougher from a logistics stand point of view unless you have rail lines coming over from the Volkov. After the supply lines are cut, then Leningrad is reduced.
IMO the way the game is right now, AGN will need serious help in order to pull it off.
RE: Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:09 pm
by Pawsy
Oil first strategy here but see the benefit of the Finns in winter and middle game.
RE: Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:21 pm
by Fänrik Stål
I'm thinking about starting a GC as the Germans and going for Leningrad first will probably be my option too. In the RtLeningrad scenario I found a working plan was to go Riga->Novgorod->Tikhvin, only giving secondary priority to Leningrad itself. Once Tikhvin falls, the defenses around Leningrad disintegrate more or less by themselves.
My question is, is the soviet defense of Leningrad in the grand campaign significantly stronger? Do they ship in more units from other parts than they get as reinforcements in the shorter scenario?
RE: Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:34 pm
by Q-Ball
Against the AI, this is clearly the best strategy; Leningrad frees the Finns, which by themselves can defend everything in the winter down to the no-move line. This frees-up 30+ divisions. You can also bag huge numbers of Soviet Units in Leningrad if you take it by reaching Lake Ladoga and Svir River. This is all WAY better than going for Moscow, which mostly just gets you a longer line to defend.
Best way, go around south of Lake Ilmen, circle north and outflank Volkhov River. Bring lots of infantry and Mot units. Move FAST.
Against the LIVING, a much more complicated question. Leningrad still presents the greatest reward, but humans know this. Humans also know you can put Rifle Divs in the swamps south of Lake Ladoga, and stop Panzers in their tracks. It's too bad for the Germans that terrain isn't all LIght Woods, because that would change things immensely.
Not sure what it would take to go hell-bent for Leningrad, probably alot of Panzers to get far fast, but then right at the end you need Infantry for the last few miles to Lake Ladoga, because it's all swamp.
Really tough nut vs. a human.
RE: Leningrad-First Strategy
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:22 pm
by Zoetermeer
In my game I compromised by feinting a big right hook by going north with Panzer Group 2 from north of the Rzhev area. While I didn't really intend to go very far with Panzer Group 2, this had the effect of forcing the AI to withdraw units south of Lake Ilmen to the east and refuse his Volkhov line along its southern flank. This worked beautifully as I was able to easily get panzers from Pz. Group 4 across the Volkhov just north of Ilmen and simultaneously blast my way across the Volkhov just south of Ladoga. Then it was just a matter of time before I'd flanked the Volkhov line and surrounded a good number of big stacks there.