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3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:06 am
by mamnich24
Dear Guys,
I'm new to the game. One thing is unclear to me about 3.4 beta - If I install it, are all the scenarios updated, or are they now unbalanced because of the 3.4 beta changes?
Mike
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:01 am
by 1_Lzard
mamnich,
Actually, non of the 'old' scenarios are updated, but the 'new' scenarios often won't work without the patch....
I'd install, as the patch allows one to use the new features or not on player desire, eh? You might get more details by reading the threads concerning it all, LOL!
[:D]
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:06 am
by Silvanski
For scenarios designed under 3.2 or older versions I suggest to set "New supply rules" off...
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:05 pm
by mamnich24
So for clarification...
new scenarios means those in 3.4 and current beta; old means those 3.2 and earlier?
Old scenarios will play fine in 3.4 beta if I just set new supply rules to off?Thanks,
Mike
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:17 pm
by 1_Lzard
Basically, tho one can note in the preface of the scenario which version the designer used (3.4 or 3.2)....
In the end you'll prolly need to run the 3.4 ver a couple of times to shake it out, but there's no reason I can see not to install it. After all, it's the way the game is going to be until the 3.5 ver comes out, and that will be a while, eh?
[8D]
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:33 pm
by Silvanski
ORIGINAL: 1_Lzard
Basically, tho one can note in the preface of the scenario which version the designer used (3.4 or 3.2)....
Those scenarios designed specifically for use with the new supply features introduced in 3.4, will have that mentioned in the scenario notes.
Elementary my dear L'zard [;)]
But as rule of thumb I'd play everything before 3.4 with "New supply rules" OFF
On the other hand "New turn order" can be turned ON for all scenarios!
Let's recap that feature as described in the 'What's new?'
I. PLAYER-TURN EQUALIZATION (AKA “NEW TURN ORDER RULES”) (Optional):
There is now a choice to use equalized player-turns. The old pre-turn calculation method used to do all the calculations for supply, recovery, and other items at the start of the first player turn. This was a bit unfair (usually to the second player). The new turn order splits that processing into three parts. Air-Combat, Events, and Weather effects still happen at the beginning of the game turn. But everything else now happens at the beginning of each respective player-turn instead. Clouds even move between player-turns – just without weather effects.
Note that equalization will mean that enemy units cut off from communications in the friendly player-turn will be
unsupplied in the immediately following enemy player-turn regardless of side (previously an unfair advantage for side-two). Also, note that movement recovery is done twice for each side (start of each player-turn). This will clear the “Retreated” condition for both sides during their own player-turn (previously an unfair advantage for side-one).
It may even make use of reserve deployments more palatable to players.
Furthermore, neither side is assumed to have 100% visibility into their own territories during the enemy movement phase (previously an unfair advantage for side-two). Rather, detection of enemy moves into friendly territory will
now depend upon the friendly Theater Recon Level or friendly units. Therefore, enemy units will now be better able to slip around either player without notice.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:19 pm
by sPzAbt653
On the other hand "New turn order" can be turned ON for all scenarios!
Reinforcement arrivals can affect scenarios using the new turn order, if the scenario was designed to have player 2 units in place at the beginning of the turn. With the new turn order ON, these units arrive at the beginning of player 2's turn.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:36 pm
by Silvanski
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
On the other hand "New turn order" can be turned ON for all scenarios!
Reinforcement arrivals can affect scenarios using the new turn order, if the scenario was designed to have player 2 units in place at the beginning of the turn. With the new turn order ON, these units arrive at the beginning of player 2's turn.
Thanks Steve
[:D] that's one detail I overlooked
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:04 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Silvanski
But as rule of thumb I'd play everything before 3.4 with "New supply rules" OFF
On the other hand "New turn order" can be turned ON for all scenarios!
I believe there is an issue with New Supply in Anzio, involving the way beach supply was modeled. But, other than a scenario doing something similar, my rule of thumb would be to use both. I would only hesitate if I had specific info that New Supply or New Turn Order was going to cause a problem with the specific scenario. The benefits are pretty significant.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:16 pm
by Silvanski
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I believe there is an issue with New Supply in Anzio, involving the way beach supply was modeled. But, other than a scenario doing something similar, my rule of thumb would be to use both. I would only hesitate if I had specific info that New Supply or New Turn Order was going to cause a problem with the specific scenario. The benefits are pretty significant.
From the top of my head I can mention one exception
I remember that "sPzAbt653" had to add a supply point closer to the Arctic front line in his 3.2 version of Directive21 for it to radiate enough supply under the new supply rules in 3.4.
Before starting a 3.2 scenario it won't harm to compare both supply rules before jumping in.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:45 pm
by sPzAbt653
Scenarios designed under 3.2 or earlier might be affected differently, and if specific scenario briefings state that a scenario was designed or updated with 3.4 or later versions, that doesn't specifically indicate that the scenario was designed for the new rules. Therefore, I wouldn't play with new supply or turn order unless the scenario description specifies the use of both.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:51 pm
by sPzAbt653
...had to add a supply point closer to the Arctic front line in his 3.2 version of Directive21 for it to radiate enough supply under the new supply rules in 3.4.
Rick updated D21 for 3.4, I don't remember if any other changes were made to accomodate the new rules.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:53 pm
by Silvanski
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
...had to add a supply point closer to the Arctic front line in his 3.2 version of Directive21 for it to radiate enough supply under the new supply rules in 3.4.
Rick updated D21 for 3.4, I don't remember if any other changes were made to accomodate the new rules.
OK it was Rick then [;)] I remember talk about the 20th Gebirg being out of supply with NSR turned on, hence the addition of a supply point (reduced value I believe) closer to the front
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:59 pm
by sPzAbt653
new scenarios means those in 3.4 and current beta; old means those 3.2 and earlier?
Some scenarios were updated for 3.4 (there is a list in the What's New). The ones I've opened have had the 3.4 version specified in the scenario briefing. But as I said earlier, I don't know if that means they updated and playtested for new turn order, new supply rules, both or neither. The only way to know is if the briefings are specific ?
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:02 pm
by sPzAbt653
I remember talk about the 20th Gebirg being out of supply with NSR turned on
Yes, and since I hate supply points, I tried to fiddle a work around by blaming the terrain, but that didn't work. Better to add the reduced supply point. I would guess there are other scenarios that would also be affected.
Why guess, if the briefing isn't specific, don't use them ?
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:30 pm
by Telumar
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Silvanski
But as rule of thumb I'd play everything before 3.4 with "New supply rules" OFF
On the other hand "New turn order" can be turned ON for all scenarios!
I believe there is an issue with New Supply in Anzio, involving the way beach supply was modeled. But, other than a scenario doing something similar, my rule of thumb would be to use both. I would only hesitate if I had specific info that New Supply or New Turn Order was going to cause a problem with the specific scenario. The benefits are pretty significant.
Yes, the version that comes with the patch must be played with the old supply rules. With the new rules the Allied beachhead will be without supply.
This is because for the beaches and Anzio harbour i used ferry bridging units that trace supply over a deep water/destroyed bridge hex. This gives the German player the ability to actually interdict supply unloadings (by shelling or air attacks on these units). This doesn't work anmore with the new supply rules.
I have an updated version that can be played with new supply rules on my PC, but testing is not finished yet and it's too late for contribution to the official 3.4 patch anyway.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:50 pm
by Curtis Lemay
While there will be exceptions, I still think the vast majority of scenarios will not have any issues.
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:42 am
by Oberst_Klink
The version I am playing vs. Prussian Tom is then new one (beta), no? Must be, he didn't complain about no C-rations and MRE for the boys... BTW, the scenario is ace! Enjoying it a lot and soon Smiling Albert's lads will teach'm a lesson they shall never forget
RE: 3.4 beta question
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:32 pm
by Telumar
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
The version I am playing vs. Prussian Tom is then new one (beta), no? Must be, he didn't complain about no C-rations and MRE for the boys... BTW, the scenario is ace! Enjoying it a lot and soon Smiling Albert's lads will teach'm a lesson they shall never forget
Thanks, but i meant the 1 km version.