Matrix Games Forums

Regarding the armor values(front, side, top) for the various tanks, I wonder if the values represent millimeters of armor? If so, are they meant to be a one to one match or an abstract taking account of the slope of the armor? I would like to add some tanks that are not in the game, but not sure what values to give them and would like to know what system the game designers used. Thanks!

This a question for Jim (jaw). Will forward to him.

ORIGINAL: WilliePete

Regarding the armor values(front, side, top) for the various tanks, I wonder if the values represent millimeters of armor? If so, are they meant to be a one to one match or an abstract taking account of the slope of the armor? I would like to add some tanks that are not in the game, but not sure what values to give them and would like to know what system the game designers used. Thanks!

Yes, armor thickness is measured in millimeters. The armor values are the average of the slope adjusted thickness (armor basis) of hull, superstructure, turret and gun mantel for front armor, hull, superstructure and turret for side and top armor. If gun mantel armor is unknown then it is assumed to equal front turret armor; if superstructure armor is unknown then it is assumed to equal hull armor.

I'm curious as to what AFVs you would like to add as I thought we were very comprehensive in covering vehicles that were produced in any quantity that would matter at this scale?

Jim Wirth

ORIGINAL: jaw

ORIGINAL: WilliePete

Regarding the armor values(front, side, top) for the various tanks, I wonder if the values represent millimeters of armor? If so, are they meant to be a one to one match or an abstract taking account of the slope of the armor? I would like to add some tanks that are not in the game, but not sure what values to give them and would like to know what system the game designers used. Thanks!

Yes, armor thickness is measured in millimeters. The armor values are the average of the slope adjusted thickness (armor basis) of hull, superstructure, turret and gun mantel for front armor, hull, superstructure and turret for side and top armor. If gun mantel armor is unknown then it is assumed to equal front turret armor; if superstructure armor is unknown then it is assumed to equal hull armor.

I'm curious as to what AFVs you would like to add as I thought we were very comprehensive in covering vehicles that were produced in any quantity that would matter at this scale?

Jim Wirth

Hi Jim,

I appreciate the feedback! One of the reasons why I love this game is that it has lots of numbers, stats, ect., so I'm in heaven! There are a few vehicles that I am considering for my "what if" scenarios. I'd like to add both the Panther F and Panther II which neither made production, but would like to also add some more obscure vehicles that did like the Stuerer Emil, and Dickermax. There are also different versions of various tanks that didn't make the game, probably because too few were made that I would like to add as well.

If possible, I wonder if you could share with me step by step the procedure to come up with the frontal armor values? You gave the Panthers front armor rating a 124, although it had 80mm sloped at 55 degrees. The Panther II was to have 100mm of armor. How would you figure it out? Thanks!

WP

You really do like the obscure stuff! The only problem with gamers adding new ground elements at this time is that I can't say for certain that we are done making our own additions/corrections. For example, just the other day I made two changes to the ground elements. I had Gary add two new ground element types, Light Armored Car and Heavy Anti-tank Gun. The Light Armored Car type only applies to a couple types of ACs in WitE but will be more important in WitW. The heavy anti-tank gun type applies only to the 88mm anti-tank gun at the moment but I'm considering adding the Soviet 100mm ATG also (have to discuss that with Pavel). The purpose of the heavy anti-tank gun type was to prevent 88s showing up in units that didn't get them while keeping light ATGs out of units that got exclusively 88s.

My point is that "official" updates may continue to include a new wrdevice.dat file that would overwrite any changes players had made in the file. Of course you have the option to ignore the update but sometimes there are more important changes you probably would like to have. An example is the recent fine tuning I did to the blast radii of the devices (weapons). Unfortunately the devices are part of the same file as the ground elements so something as simple as correcting a blast radius or an ROF will necessitate a new wrdevice.dat file again overwriting any player changes.

The above notwithstanding I will look at the AFVs of interest to you and email you the stats.

Jim Wirth

I'm adding these vehicles too - could you post the stats in open forum?

It would also be useful if we could have a steer on the device stats for the 105mm K18 L/52 and the 128mm PaK 40 L/61.
I've guestimated values already but it would help if I could compare with an expert's values.

I have not yet heard back from jaw, but by all means lets post the stats or the formula used to obtain the stats, especially for vehicles with sloped armor here in the open forum. Thanks!

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

I'm adding these vehicles too - could you post the stats in open forum?

It would also be useful if we could have a steer on the device stats for the 105mm K18 L/52 and the 128mm PaK 40 L/61.
I've guestimated values already but it would help if I could compare with an expert's values.

I wouldn't call myself an "expert", just the poor fool who volunteered to crunch the numbers. If this upload works (never did this before) here is the txt file.

Jim Wirth

this is perfect! thank you so much for your time. This is a big help!