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Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:06 am
by bloomstombs2
This is the direct push. I did not take those 2 ports to the east of leningrad (Im assuming these are the ones that are east of the city).

I managed taking Pushkin, Kolpino and Pavlovo and the little swamp town . I figured the southern part of leningrad would be my safest bet with a 9 CU attack (east of pavlovo) but I cant seem to break it. Its a complete stalemate.

I have 9 infantry attacking with 27 pioneers attached to them. And the commander is a 9 infantry guy.

I got him to 3 CV but next turn he was back up to 7.

Any advice?


RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:06 am
by bloomstombs2
Im begining to think its not possible to take leningrad without isolating it first.

Well it was a good practice at taking heavily defended fortifications like this.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:22 am
by Klydon
Yeah, it can be done without isolation, but it takes piles of troops and time.

Basically what I have done is to use two different assault groups (9 infantry each). First set does a deliberate attack and if that doesn't get it done, they get moved out and the second set of 9 goes in and I take a wack at it again. This usually gets the job done without running my infantry down too much. If the first attack succeeds, then I look for another hex to reduce, but I very rarely use the same set of attackers for 2 deliberate attacks a turn. It just screws them up in terms of fatigue and losses.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 am
by bloomstombs2
Yeah I was doing something like that except doing 2 sets of deliberate attacks

Now they are in tatters. And south leningrad still stands.

Do you do quick attacks with the 2nd set after you move them in or do you wait till next turn to make another 9 man deliberate attack.

Also what kind of attachments do you have on your infantry, Im assuming pioneers, anything else?

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:36 am
by Zoetermeer
I move all the heavy/siege guns I can find in other army groups up for the Leningrad assaults - Karl siege mortars (I believe you can find one of these in 4th Army, and another in either 17th or 11 Army). Then there are Theodor heavy guns and heavy nebelwerfer units.

Basically, I try to use any support unit that uses a gun bigger than 155mm for those attacks. The trick is finding the right leaders to ensure these units are committed to the battles you want (since you cannot attach artillery directly to divisional formations).

But yeah, even with all the extra firepower you will take severe losses reducing Leningrad without isolating it first. Isolate it, let the defenders starve for a while, and then you can walk right in.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:40 am
by bloomstombs2
Thanks, Ill give that a try in 42 if im not dead.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:41 am
by Klydon
Second set coming in does deliberate attacks as well. I won't make 2 sets of deliberate attacks with the first group because then they don't have enough movement points left to get out of the way. If I make a second deliberate attack with an assault group, it is the second set coming in (3 deliberate attacks). Sometimes not all of them have enough movement points left, but if I think I am really close to getting him to break, (or his fort level drops) then I will try it, but regret it more often than not.. hehe. The thing with a second attack from the second group is you wont have enough movement points left to occupy the hex, so need to keep that in mind and have a unit or two that can grab the hex should you get it. Pioneers are what I use, but not necessarily across the board.

If you are doing 2 sets of attacks in a turn and have done that for a couple of turns, your troops are likely down on ToE and up on fatigue and need to take at least 1 turn off.

One other note (looking at the encirclement thread) is that I do usually try to make it a priority to push the Russians behind the Volkhov so I have some room to work with and while he might be in supply, it is far harder for him to get fresh troops into the city. Even if you can't roll 3 fresh stacks of troops up on him, I would likely consider popping him with 3 stacks, switch out the two stacks to the south and try at least once if not twice and that should get him out of there although the third attack will likely be with just your 6 divisions to the south.

*Edit* No question Leningrad is tough to take non-isolated and that the Germans will take some serious losses, but sometimes those ports are just out of reach and you can't get to them without suffering nasty losses and a lot of lost time that you may not have to do it. Obviously you want to try to isolate and then capture if at all possible, but I think you can grind him down if you have to and getting the Finns in is big, especially for that first winter.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:19 am
by bloomstombs2
Thanks kly.

I dont know how it is you ever got off 3 deliberate attacks, but what has happened to me is, I attack, pull back, and attack with the second set, and next turn I cant do 2 deliberate attacks because not enough movement.

It must be my setup and the way I shuffle units in and out. I have to move the city attackers 2 hexes away since theres no room. Maybe I should leave a little room there.


EDIT . Just transfered all those heavies to OKH. Hungarians had some nice heavy howitzers which they wouldnt let us borrow but I think I got enough.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:18 am
by BletchleyGeek
ORIGINAL: Klydon

Second set coming in does deliberate attacks as well. I won't make 2 sets of deliberate attacks with the first group because then they don't have enough movement points left to get out of the way. If I make a second deliberate attack with an assault group, it is the second set coming in (3 deliberate attacks). Sometimes not all of them have enough movement points left, but if I think I am really close to getting him to break, (or his fort level drops) then I will try it, but regret it more often than not.. hehe. The thing with a second attack from the second group is you wont have enough movement points left to occupy the hex, so need to keep that in mind and have a unit or two that can grab the hex should you get it. Pioneers are what I use, but not necessarily across the board.

If you are doing 2 sets of attacks in a turn and have done that for a couple of turns, your troops are likely down on ToE and up on fatigue and need to take at least 1 turn off.

One other note (looking at the encirclement thread) is that I do usually try to make it a priority to push the Russians behind the Volkhov so I have some room to work with and while he might be in supply, it is far harder for him to get fresh troops into the city. Even if you can't roll 3 fresh stacks of troops up on him, I would likely consider popping him with 3 stacks, switch out the two stacks to the south and try at least once if not twice and that should get him out of there although the third attack will likely be with just your 6 divisions to the south.

*Edit* No question Leningrad is tough to take non-isolated and that the Germans will take some serious losses, but sometimes those ports are just out of reach and you can't get to them without suffering nasty losses and a lot of lost time that you may not have to do it. Obviously you want to try to isolate and then capture if at all possible, but I think you can grind him down if you have to and getting the Finns in is big, especially for that first winter.

Exactly what sitito has done to me. I blocked the Volkhov too well so he discarded the indirect approach. He used also a lot of artillery. An awful lot [:(]

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:33 pm
by bloomstombs2
I have a question on the artillery support.

How many is enough? I got all the ones Klydon mentioned, but I can still find 200+ mm howitzers in the german army. Its a pain to search for since I cant seem to find any way to differentiate between the 150mm ones and the big ones.

THey all have the same description.


Ok on to the real problem, please bear with me.


I moved all that heavy artillery to the 18th army and then I have to move it to the corpse level (in my case CI corpse).

Do I move ALL the artillery to the 1 corpse of my choice?

If so, what leader would you reccomend for this artillery infantry force. I already have about 12 infantry divisions under thise corpse . Should it be less? I can always switch guys in and out at the cost of commander points.



RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:57 pm
by Farfarer61
I find it useful to ensure you have an Inf div attached to a Pz Corps involved in each attack. This way the 6 mobile units or so in AGN (Pz or Mot Inf) can be placed in Reserve. A few of them usually leap into the attack, making all the difference. Pay attention to the command structure, as the closer the Reserve Units are 'related' to the attackers, the better chance of reaction. Infantry can react as well - with lucky rolls, you can get a long list of "assisting units" in the Combat Resolution. I have never moved around Heavy Artillery so can't help there. I probably have Karl attached to Rail Repair unit for all I know :)

I also "Bomb Unit", as you get one per turn it seems, and can sometimes change the defending unit health from green, to yellow, or orange etc. I presume this helps the attack.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:09 pm
by randallw
You can sort of find specific equipment, including artillery, by the production screen.  On the rightmost column of a specific equipment type there may be a clickable number; this shows how many units are using that equipment.  Click the number and a list of the units appears.

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:07 pm
by bloomstombs2
ORIGINAL: Farfarer

I find it useful to ensure you have an Inf div attached to a Pz Corps involved in each attack. This way the 6 mobile units or so in AGN (Pz or Mot Inf) can be placed in Reserve. A few of them usually leap into the attack, making all the difference. Pay attention to the command structure, as the closer the Reserve Units are 'related' to the attackers, the better chance of reaction. Infantry can react as well - with lucky rolls, you can get a long list of "assisting units" in the Combat Resolution. I have never moved around Heavy Artillery so can't help there. I probably have Karl attached to Rail Repair unit for all I know :)

I also "Bomb Unit", as you get one per turn it seems, and can sometimes change the defending unit health from green, to yellow, or orange etc. I presume this helps the attack.
ems, and can sometimes change the defending unit health f

In leningrad? interesting.

Also where do you place the mobile units ? I mean how close do they have to be to be part of the battle.

I wonder what they could do for leningrad attack. Ill have to give this a try.


EDIT, Also, I cant find any of the attachments in production screen. Where exactly was it?

RE: Leningrad one tough nut to crack!

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:57 pm
by bloomstombs2
OK back on the subject of guns...

I went through the entire german artillery attachment list.

I found 26x 210 mm howitzers, and 4x 240 mm howitzers.

Theres going to be alot of guns trained on lenin.