Matrix Games Forums

I am PBEM'ing, playing the 3.4 new version, but a "Classic Scenario" (I'd ask my opponent, who IS gracious and WOULD help, but this also applys to other games, some VS the PO, so here goes):[&:]

1) Tunisia, 42-43. Italian and German ground units are not supposed to co-operate (black flag on attack planner). I have run 10-20 trials of this against the PO, and when the Allied unit starting near Bizerte is attacked by italians only, with artillery (Italian) and Air Support (German), I use a broken down German unit to completly surround the unit. The German ground unit had a black flag, and did not participate in the attack. It usually was inconclusive. I brought up a German HQ, and the HQ, plus the ground unit both were toggled to attack (same air support, same artillery (Italian) support), and the attack APPEARS to succeed more often than if the Germans are left out. Am I imagining this...or do I misunderstand "no cooperation" rule (Black Flag)? This appears to happen in other attack situations also...this is no scientific analysis, but it appears consistent...the "Black Flag" guys seem to help a little! I'm only talking German and Italian Ground units, both regular combat units and a German HQ all combining in an attack on a Allied unit. Do they help at all??? Am I missing something in the attack sequence?[&:]

2) Reading up on the Big North Africa Scenarios, Bob Cross advises digging in artillery units, keeping air safe from the other side, and other precuations, more critical at batallion levels (Where range differences seem greater?).

IF an artillery unit is not dug in on "Tactical Support", will it move, defend or both if an adjacent unit is attacked? If it is on Local Support...does it support all attacked units in range? I THINK, if it is dug in, it will support all units in range at 50%, but once you dig it in, does using it make you lose more rounds? It seems that, when attacking, you want the short range artillery close enough to support you attacks, and dig them in right before the turn ends, if you don't burn the turn too rapidly.[&:]

Sorry to be so dumb, but I had this game since TAOW1 (TalonSoft), and it keeps getting better, as do my opponents. When PBEM'ing, I really try to do my best, and am unsure of the specifics of Force Support, Artillery Support, and..[&:]

3) Air Support. If left to the "Autopilot" (In Tunis 42-43), it appears that Stukas are set on "Air Superiority" (as are the fighters)...yet someone is bombing airbases and inderdicting naval invasions. I thought you had to be set to "Combat Support", for an air unit to support ground attacks. I understand that Air units on "Air Superiority" and "Interdiction" will react to enemy air, naval and ground movement, but not sure how stukas labeled "Air Superiority" can attack ground or air units during an attack phase.[&:]

10 years, and still dumb as a brick!!![&:]

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM
1) Tunisia, 42-43. Italian and German ground units are not supposed to co-operate (black flag on attack planner). I have run 10-20 trials of this against the PO, and when the Allied unit starting near Bizerte is attacked by italians only, with artillery (Italian) and Air Support (German), I use a broken down German unit to completly surround the unit. The German ground unit had a black flag, and did not participate in the attack. It usually was inconclusive. I brought up a German HQ, and the HQ, plus the ground unit both were toggled to attack (same air support, same artillery (Italian) support), and the attack APPEARS to succeed more often than if the Germans are left out. Am I imagining this...or do I misunderstand "no cooperation" rule (Black Flag)? This appears to happen in other attack situations also...this is no scientific analysis, but it appears consistent...the "Black Flag" guys seem to help a little! I'm only talking German and Italian Ground units, both regular combat units and a German HQ all combining in an attack on a Allied unit. Do they help at all??? Am I missing something in the attack sequence?[&:]

The stipulation as to whether or not a unit will or will not cooperate in the attack means that the combat will or will not take longer in terms or rounds expended during the attack. So using a unit that does not cooperate ( black flag ) just means that the combat will go a round or two longer than not using it.

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM
If an artillery unit is not dug in on "Tactical Support", will it move, defend or both if an adjacent unit is attacked?

If it's not dug in but IS on tactical support settings my understanding is that it WILL defend during an enemy attack if it passes it's communication check ( which it almost always does, depending on the proficiency level ).

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM
If it is on Local Support...does it support all attacked units in range?

My understanding is that it will support all attacked units in range but will also move during the attack toward the attack, which may or may not be what you want it to do. There's a chance that it may enter the attacked hex and therefore be one of the units attacked.

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM
I THINK, if it is dug in, it will support all units in range at 50%, but once you dig it in, does using it make you lose more rounds?

Using an arty unit that is dug in will support, but you want to avoid using arty units directly to attack something if it has no more movement points left as that may burn your entire turn and give you an early turn ending.

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM
3) Air Support. If left to the "Autopilot" (In Tunis 42-43), it appears that Stukas are set on "Air Superiority" (as are the fighters)...yet someone is bombing airbases and inderdicting naval invasions. I thought you had to be set to "Combat Support", for an air unit to support ground attacks. I understand that Air units on "Air Superiority" and "Interdiction" will react to enemy air, naval and ground movement, but not sure how stukas labeled "Air Superiority" can attack ground or air units during an attack phase.[&:]

One of the reasons I personally DON'T use the "autopilot" is because he sets bombers on AS missions which only gets them shot down for no good purpose. I too have seen cases where units set on AS also participate in CS missions. Also, arty assigned to attack directly on one hex seem prone to assist on different hexes in range during a given attack on that different hex. With a consequent expenditure of supply. This should not happen and rest assured I'll report it to the betatesting team so this behavior can be fixed. Good catch, by the way. Thank you for your post.

If I assign aircraft to CS on the hex in the red circle, with the rain, is there an effect of the rain on the performance of that CS mission, and if there is, what effect can I expect? Anybody know. The manual isn't explicit in this reguard.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: PRUSSIAN TOM

I am PBEM'ing, playing the 3.4 new version, but a "Classic Scenario" (I'd ask my opponent, who IS gracious and WOULD help, but this also applys to other games, some VS the PO, so here goes):[&:]

1) Tunisia, 42-43. Italian and German ground units are not supposed to co-operate (black flag on attack planner). I have run 10-20 trials of this against the PO, and when the Allied unit starting near Bizerte is attacked by italians only, with artillery (Italian) and Air Support (German), I use a broken down German unit to completly surround the unit. The German ground unit had a black flag, and did not participate in the attack. It usually was inconclusive. I brought up a German HQ, and the HQ, plus the ground unit both were toggled to attack (same air support, same artillery (Italian) support), and the attack APPEARS to succeed more often than if the Germans are left out. Am I imagining this...or do I misunderstand "no cooperation" rule (Black Flag)? This appears to happen in other attack situations also...this is no scientific analysis, but it appears consistent...the "Black Flag" guys seem to help a little! I'm only talking German and Italian Ground units, both regular combat units and a German HQ all combining in an attack on a Allied unit. Do they help at all??? Am I missing something in the attack sequence?[&:]

The stipulation as to whether or not a unit will or will not cooperate in the attack means that the combat will or will not take longer in terms or rounds expended during the attack. So using a unit that does not cooperate ( black flag ) just means that the combat will go a round or two longer than not using it.

Actually there is a combat penalty in 3.4. It's in the What's New doc. What you mention may apply though - additionally to the penalty.

Prussian Tom: What about the flanking bonus? Maybe with the Black Flag guys you get the flanking bonus which makes things easier for your guys despite lacking cooperation.

Thanks, guys...playing against a "real" opponent is a lot more fun, but the details are a lot more critical [:-] . I got my first "clue" years ago, when Curtis answered a question about CFNA [:)] . There is so much depth to this game, I am constantly re-amazed . Lots of iterations, and still more fun [:D] ! I never get tired of it. TAOW has to have the most user-friendly group of experts of anythingn I have ever seen. I am grateful, but will also keep on reading. [&o][&o][&o]!

In addition to my answer to your first question :

From the What's-New.Doc file:

1. There is now a combat penalty for poor cooperation levels. Full Cooperation is unaffected. But Partial Cooperation scales combat strengths by 83%. And No Cooperation scales combat strengths by 67%. This applies to both attackers and defenders. The scaling is applied to the entire attack or defense regardless of how few or how inconsequential the uncooperative units in the combat are, or whether they are ground-assaulters or ranged-supporters. Note that players can determine the cooperation level of an attack by viewing the Attack Planner Flags. But the Attack Planner does not show the reduced combat strengths – players have to figure that themselves. Note that this was done to overpower an old bug in TOAW that perversely had somewhat benefited non-cooperation levels in combat.

I had somehow forgotten or had never noticed this verbage. I learn something every day around here.