Matrix Games Forums

Been away for a while...so bear with me....this may have already been discussed...if so please point me to the thread.

There is the wonderful concept called "Training Groups" presented in the manual. Not sure how or if code has changed in regards to pilots but...

Looking at the Group CSV file, the Allies receive no Training Groups, and the Japanese have c.232, most set to arrive in 1945 and none prior to Oct 44.

The manual says these groups may not be assigned combat missions. So I "ass-u-me" this includes Kamikaze as well.

In any event from what I can tell, "regular" combat groups are routinely used by players as "training" groups.

Which brings me to a couple of questions -

1. Is this simply a design idea that was never brought "fully" to fruition?

2. Should the Japan and/or the Allies receive training groups earlier?

3. If Yes to 2, should combat groups still be allowed to use the Train mission? I realize IRL they did...but our game mechanisms are not IRL.

4. Can a Training Group be set to CV Trained, Trainer? If yes, would this provide incentive to players to create and simulate the IRL use of certain CVE's/CVL's as Trainer CV's...ala Hosho?

5. Does anyone have a list of Allied Training Groups?

I did see the threads on -

Pilot Management
and
Pilot Training


So Training Groups are a relic?

If I can remember correctly, they were introduced in one of the early patches, then removed when they proved to effective.

ORIGINAL: noguaranteeofsanity

If I can remember correctly, they were introduced in one of the early patches, then removed when they proved to effective.

Searching the "What's New" file revealed a change wherein on-map combat groups can no longer be converted to a "Trainer"

You can still add training groups via the editor, and they still work just fine:

Group size of A/C varies in the editor, but 144 pilots can train per group
They will train up to standard quickly, then slowly from their
Active groups will draw the better pilots from the training groups first, depending on how you set them.

I've added these to a mod and they are quite effective. Even more so with veteran pilots added 'as instructor'.

So unless they changed the code in the latest patches it should still be usable.

ORIGINAL: Shark7

You can still add training groups via the editor, and they still work just fine:

Group size of A/C varies in the editor, but 144 pilots can train per group
They will train up to standard quickly, then slowly from their
Active groups will draw the better pilots from the training groups first, depending on how you set them.

I've added these to a mod and they are quite effective. Even more so with veteran pilots added 'as instructor'.

So unless they changed the code in the latest patches it should still be usable.

So IYO ... should the combat groups be allowed to "train", if the players were given the Training Groups?

The training groups can do Kamikaze missions if you convert them.

Fire up Downfall if you want to get a feel for how they work. Japan is littered with them.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Shark7

You can still add training groups via the editor, and they still work just fine:

Group size of A/C varies in the editor, but 144 pilots can train per group
They will train up to standard quickly, then slowly from their
Active groups will draw the better pilots from the training groups first, depending on how you set them.

I've added these to a mod and they are quite effective. Even more so with veteran pilots added 'as instructor'.

So unless they changed the code in the latest patches it should still be usable.

So IYO ... should the combat groups be allowed to "train", if the players were given the Training Groups?

Sure. It is historical for combat groups to spend time not in actual combat training. In fact, combat units today spend time training when not involved in combat operations.

If you want training groups, you'll have to edit the game to get them in...so only way is a mod.

ORIGINAL: Shark7



Sure. It is historical for combat groups to spend time not in actual combat training. In fact, combat units today spend time training when not involved in combat operations.

I realize they did IRl... I was thinking in terms of the AE universe and slowing tempos down...

If you want training groups, you'll have to edit the game to get them in...so only way is a mod.

I realize that as well.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Shark7

You can still add training groups via the editor, and they still work just fine:

Group size of A/C varies in the editor, but 144 pilots can train per group
They will train up to standard quickly, then slowly from their
Active groups will draw the better pilots from the training groups first, depending on how you set them.

I've added these to a mod and they are quite effective. Even more so with veteran pilots added 'as instructor'.

So unless they changed the code in the latest patches it should still be usable.

So IYO ... should the combat groups be allowed to "train", if the players were given the Training Groups?

More than yes - HELL YES!!! There is no way that the training mission should be removed from regular groups. Having some rear area training groups is most useful, whether they be regular groups or the (currently removed) training groups. But having deployed groups do training is necessary for lots of reasons. 1) There is just too much training to be done for the regular groups not to participate. 2) That includes multiple skill training, which makes #1 even worse. 3) Groups change planes and at times that means they change primary weapons and/or attack mode. All of a sudden the group is torpedo armed but the pool is not full of torpedo trained pilots and the best solution is for the experienced pilots to train in the squadron. 4) It takes up to 2 weeks (14 game-days) for a pilot to move from a group to the reserve, or from the reserve to a group, or directly from one group to another. When doing bulk training in rear areas that's fine (and realistic). But if training were removed from combat units, that fact would explode in significance as an impediment. 5) Combat units did train and should be able to do so in-game.

I don't anything about the mechanics of the special training squadrons because they were gone before I got to mess around with them.

I should add 6) Disallowing the training mission for combat units will stop the Allies from catching up in pilot quality as they actually did. Instead they will only get better pilots over the years as new pilot quality increases.

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Shark7



Sure. It is historical for combat groups to spend time not in actual combat training. In fact, combat units today spend time training when not involved in combat operations.

I realize they did IRl... I was thinking in terms of the AE universe and slowing tempos down...

If you want training groups, you'll have to edit the game to get them in...so only way is a mod.

I realize that as well.

Well I did add them to a mod...I'm not too sure how well the AI can deal with them. Best I could tell it wasn't bringing in new batches of trainees and moving out the fully trained ones.

If anything, I found it to help the IJN side out a bit, by preventing the collapse from happening as early. At the same time, those training groups will deplete the trained pools first.

For a PBEM I think I would add them, with a house rule as well: No combat group may train at greater than 30% training.

Agree that part of the magic of the game is to train your own pilots / set squadrons and mission focus...The black box is - fun.

I too frown a bit on specifically typed 'training' air units.  I'm not sure where the fun in training squadrons is...

Disregard...