Page 1 of 2
China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:16 pm
by Treetop64
Been away from the game for a long while, so I'm starting a new Allied campaign from day one. Full real, historical surprise, withdrawals, everything.
One of the things that I lost appreciation for is the sheer amount of work that involves getting Chinese ground forces organized and unified at the beginning of the game:
Oh.
My.
Friggin'.
GOD!
Been working at that for three days now (real days, not game days!). Basically, I'm working to get all the same army groups, "war areas", commands, etc. relocated under their own roofs, so to speak, so by the time they're ready for their assaults on Wuchang, Hankow, and Sinyang there will be tighter unit cohesion, and it will be much easier to see who is doing what and where. At the start - as you all know - most of the Chinese army units are scattered all over the place, and it's a mess.
Arguably, I think one of the biggest jobs in the game.
Has anyone else tried to tackle this, and if so, how did you do it? Any pointers, advice, or (please) shortcuts?
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:17 pm
by Canoerebel
[:D] I feel your pain!
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:18 pm
by jeffk3510
Quiet China...
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:25 pm
by Treetop64
Considered Quiet China, but there's too much going on there to ignore. It's definitely understandable why that's an option, though.
Besides, I hope that I can be successful enough so that the Soviets get nudged into the war sooner than they did historically. They have an awful lot of cool stuff just piling up on the Manchurian border, and I'd love to be able to use some of it! [:D]
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:49 pm
by jeffk3510
I would say go about it just like you mentioned.... worth the time? Probably....just takes forever.
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:05 pm
by Alfred
ORIGINAL: Treetop64
Been away from the game for a long while, so I'm starting a new Allied campaign from day one. Full real, historical surprise, withdrawals, everything.
One of the things that I lost appreciation for is the sheer amount of work that involves getting Chinese ground forces organized and unified at the beginning of the game:
Oh.
My.
Friggin'.
GOD!
Been working at that for three days now (real days, not game days!). Basically, I'm working to get all the same army groups, "war areas", commands, etc. relocated under their own roofs, so to speak, so by the time they're ready for their assaults on Wuchang, Hankow, and Sinyang there will be tighter unit cohesion, and it will be much easier to see who is doing what and where. At the start - as you all know - most of the Chinese army units are scattered all over the place, and it's a mess.
Arguably, I think one of the biggest jobs in the game.
Has anyone else tried to tackle this, and if so, how did you do it? Any pointers, advice, or (please) shortcuts?
I did. IIRC, it took me 5 days, so you are doing it quicker.
I had to familiarise myself with the complete chain of command, both the 7 December structure and the future reinforcements. I basically worked from top to bottom, focusing on the nine [plus Lusu/Jiangsa (sp)] War Area Commands as being independent territory commands, with the HQs being placed in the key "provincial" cities and then paying due regard to the command radius to connect with the attached corps commands.
Alfred
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:21 pm
by AW1Steve
China's annoying , but industrial management for Japan is far worse. I wish that some how the Boffins could come up with a "Quiet China" equivalent for production.
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:40 pm
by jeffk3510
That is the sole reason I do not play as Japan. The production...
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:53 pm
by AW1Steve
What? [X(] You don't want to play "Factory manager in the Pacific!"? [:-] Say it ain't so! [:D][:D][:D]
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:04 pm
by jeffk3510
Factory Mgr in the Pacific hahaha
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:07 pm
by jeffk3510
If I want to play as Japan I play PTO for SNES
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:11 pm
by Treetop64
ORIGINAL: Alfred
I had to familiarise myself with the complete chain of command, both the 7 December structure and the future reinforcements. I basically worked from top to bottom, focusing on the nine [plus Lusu/Jiangsa (sp)] War Area Commands as being independent territory commands, with the HQs being placed in the key "provincial" cities and then paying due regard to the command radius to connect with the attached corps commands.
Alfred
That's the same as I'm doing, though I haven't gotten to the point at looking at reinforcements yet.
What about the infantry units that aren't attached to a war area, though? Is it safe to simply take any infantry unit and send them within the closest Army/Corp command radii without penalty? In other words, does the infantry "blend in" with whatever Army/Corps controlled hex that they happen to stroll into?
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:21 pm
by Treetop64
ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
If I want to play as Japan I play PTO for SNES
I had PTO IV for the PS2. This was the one that showed the naval battles in 3D. Sending subs in for merchant raiding was useless in that game, though. They were constantly getting sunk. Three, four, five or more subs going down every week, and even more when a task force sailed through.
The tactical maps were
way too small for most battles, especially if you had three or four large task forces fighting. There literally wasn't enough room to maneuver.
OK game for the most part, but there was lot wrong with it that needed to be fixed...
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:26 pm
by jeffk3510
PS2 version was pretty cool. Had its pros and cons. SNES is cool, but takes forever and fleet size is limited yada yada....
I personally liked in PTO IV when you would defeat one side they would all join as low class officers and fight for you...[:D]
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:56 pm
by nashvillen
I play WITP:AE for the logistics, not the combat. If the Allied player would leave me alone I would be happy with what I got by the end of AUG 42. But, no, he has to be attacking me and so I have to respond to keep my logistical network intact!
Geesh, doesn't he know that the combat portion of this game is not the fun part?
[:D][:D]
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:23 pm
by Alfred
ORIGINAL: Treetop64
ORIGINAL: Alfred
I had to familiarise myself with the complete chain of command, both the 7 December structure and the future reinforcements. I basically worked from top to bottom, focusing on the nine [plus Lusu/Jiangsa (sp)] War Area Commands as being independent territory commands, with the HQs being placed in the key "provincial" cities and then paying due regard to the command radius to connect with the attached corps commands.
Alfred
That's the same as I'm doing, though I haven't gotten to the point at looking at reinforcements yet.
What about the infantry units that aren't attached to a war area, though? Is it safe to simply take any infantry unit and send them within the closest Army/Corp command radii without penalty? In other words, does the infantry "blend in" with whatever Army/Corps controlled hex that they happen to stroll into?
Sorry, don't understand what you mean.
There are only a very few divisions out in the field which are attached to the central command. Every other division is attached to a numbered army = corps hq. They in turn are attached to a War Area Command = an army hq. These War Area Commands are identified by their numbered 1-9 or named Lusu or Jiangsa (sp). Base Forces and Construction regiments are directly attached to War Area Commands.
Many players pay no attention to maintaining the chain of command considering the combat bonus to be a minor consideration. Definitely the main benefit/penalty arises from whether an hq is restricted. Almost all Chinese divisions can not be reassigned to a different hq and therefore remain under restricted command.
Alfred
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:47 pm
by Cribtop
I have often wished for a board game style "set up phase." Subject to territorial restrictions for certain commands of course. Think of the joy of knowing what is where and actually having your forces arranged to execute your war plan. IMHO actually more important for Japan as the time lost in the first few months getting everything squared away is the time when you are racing the clock to expand.
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:06 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: Alfred
Many players pay no attention to maintaining the chain of command considering the combat bonus to be a minor consideration.
It's my understanding that developers have offered in the past the the HQ bonus is applied regardless of whether the unit 'reports' to that HQ or not.
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:47 pm
by Treetop64
ORIGINAL: Alfred
Sorry, don't understand what you mean.
There are only a very few divisions out in the field which are attached to the central command. Every other division is attached to a numbered army = corps hq. They in turn are attached to a War Area Command = an army hq. These War Area Commands are identified by their numbered 1-9 or named Lusu or Jiangsa (sp). Base Forces and Construction regiments are directly attached to War Area Commands.
Many players pay no attention to maintaining the chain of command considering the combat bonus to be a minor consideration. Definitely the main benefit/penalty arises from whether an hq is restricted. Almost all Chinese divisions can not be reassigned to a different hq and therefore remain under restricted command.
Alfred
I see. Went back into the game to study the command chain further.
It's worse than I thought! [:D]
The infantry units DO have specific Corps HQs to answer to, but many of them are days and weeks away from them!
What a conundrum. I could simply bunch up units in proximity to each other without consideration of command structure. That would make it quicker in forming armies, albeit hodgepodged to hell, but the efficiency of supply and actions will suffer. Or I could collect all units according to their command structure at specific locations, then redeploy them according to the strategic plan. Much better organizationally, and should yield better results in action and supply, but will take longer and with the Japanese breathing down their necks, is riskier. Better to go with the latter I suppose, since the Chinese need all the help they can get.
RE: China! Arrgh!
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:51 pm
by Smeulders
Read the post above again. Mercifully, (though some might have wanted to see this differently) which HQ a LCU is attached to matters little.