Matrix Games Forums

Japanese Militarists stressed to every soldier/sailor/airman that the bushido code demanded:
1-no surrender
2-dying for the emperor as glorious.
3-since Japanese soldiers did not surrender, then allied soldiers captured were to be treated as having failed in their duties.


The Bushido code created for Japanese militarism was not in fact the same code that was used by Samurai, who did in fact surrender, and who also changed sides.

Also, If surrender was despicable and so few surrendered, then why did thousands of Japanese soldiers surrender to the Russians in Manchuria before the emperors speech proclaming the end of hostilies?

This leads me to believe that the policy of no surrender in the pacific was coming directly from the commanders present, and not from any ingrained code in the average Japanese combatant.

Originally posted by corbulo
... If surrender was despicable and so few surrendered, then why did thousands of Japanese soldiers surrender to the Russians in Manchuria before the emperors speech proclaming the end of hostilies?

This leads me to believe that the policy of no surrender in the pacific was coming directly from the commanders present, and not from any ingrained code in the average Japanese combatant.

Japan 1945 was not Japan 1942.

Captain Tadashi, Gun Company, 215 Infantry Regiment, 33 Division

10 February 1942

"...Unexpectedly we found several tents. We advanced a stabbed a few men who were outside. When we entered a tent which looked like a combat headquarters I saw a wounded commander (a British Lieutant Colonel) sitting upright with several of his men. He signed to us to shoot him and died in a serene frame of mind. His attitude really was in keeping with the honour of a military man. I sincerely respect him and wish I might do the same."

I'm sure there are some books on the change in philosophy in the time between the Russo- Japanese war and the 30s.

I'm working on one (still) by Yuki Tanaka called Hidden Terrors, Japanese War Crimes in World War II in which he addresses this. Interesting

Staff Sergeant Yasumasa Nishiji, 20th Independent Engineering Regiment

Hong Kong, Singapore, Java, Burma

Hard as I tried, after the war, to recount my experience, I failed to bring home to many people; there was always something missing. When confronted by the actual scenes I was not moved to tears, perhaps owing to my youth or the fact that I had an unsentimental view of the war in those days. But I do not have the same unsentimental view now, nor am I young any longer. Now I can freely cry over my friends who died.

July 1944
…In increasing numbers our soldiers fell, physically emaciated and crippled, yet mentally alert. This soldier gave his money to his mates and, light-heartedly, told them to buy something to eat when they got away from the front. After a while, he crawled to the foot of a tree, holding a grenade. Without any sign of hesitation, he activated the grenade and ended his life…

…I fell much better today, I’ll move on now; you can catch me up later. After saying this, the soldier went off alone. We came across him dead. He had committed suicide in the middle of the road. Since he knew we would walk past he must have been hoping that we would attend to his body. Having witnessed what had happened while resting, a sick solder told us that he saw the man pull the trigger of his rifle with his big toe...

…It often occurred that soldiers took their own lives in pairs. They embraced, placing a grenade between them. We called it double suicide. The scene reminded me of the painting of ‘The White Tigers’ stabbing each other at Mount Iimori...

…The sun managed to shine through a band of cloud. The wet clothes, soaked with rain, were put in the sun to dry. I noticed that some military tokens were placed neatly and carefully on the rocks where the sun was drying them. I was disgusted as I felt that the man’s will to survive was ruled by greed. I did not think it necessary to remove my wet clothes as I knew they would dry gradually while I was on the move. A few days later I passed the same spot again, expecting to see him looking dry and neat. He was clinging to the rock-lifeless. In my surprise, I realized that he had been preparing for his end...

There's an interesting little book called "Night of a thousand suicides" or something to that effect... I can't remember the author at the moment, but it's basically a first person account of a Japanese soldier captured in new guinea and his subsequent life in an australian pow camp... it provides a good idea of peoples' mindset at the time.

You also have to realize the difference of the soldiers in the particular areas. By 1945 most of the soldiers in Manchuria were actually older reservists, who had the experience of life to not be quite as easy to manipulation as the younger generations.

The Japanese soldier encountered by the Allies in most of their engagements were those who were either of military age, or younger, who have lived their entire lives under the militaristic Japanese regime.

Before 1931 Japan was not an extremely militaristic nation. The military was still fairly strong, and it was not until 1937-41 when the IJA was drastically increased (mainly by those who have lived most of their recent lives under the extremely militaristic education system and Japanese culture. Those soliders who fought in 1941-45 were in their late teens and early twenties, who were no older then 8 when their nation became militaristic, and have no memory of the pre-less-militaristic Japan.

Japanese reservists, in their 30's and 40's, had memory of their Civilian lives in their civilian nation, and had less inclanation to die for philosophic ideals then their younger and basically brainwashed counterparts.

In Dauntless/Helldiver Cmdr. Buell recounts a Japanese pilot who was rescued after crashing in the American CV task Force. His wounds were treated and he was taken to the flagship's sick bay where he was kept restrained and under guard. During the night the pilot attempted suicide by biting through his tongue, his only option. Prompt attention saved his life and the next day he promised the Americans that he would not cause any more trouble and gave them a great deal of information. He explained that his change of attitude was based on the fact that he had done everthing that his honor required of him.

Everyones answer was most informative.

Also, If surrender was despicable and so few surrendered, then why did thousands of Japanese soldiers surrender to the Russians in Manchuria before the emperors speech proclaming the end of hostilies?

Were they marched off to the gulags like the German soldiers? Did they serve in the gulags as long? How many returned home?

Good thread!

all I want to add is one question:

How many American Marines or Soldiers surrendered?

Answer that and I think you'll find there was not a whole lot of difference in the "Way of the Warrior" for either side I think.

In the early war quite a few surrendered. The garrisons on Wake and Guam, the Marines and soldiers in the Philippines surrendered by the tens of thousands. But then the stories of the Bataan Death March and similar incidents filtered back to the Americans. At this point they realized that their enemy was not interested in surrender, it was victory or death. The tragedy of this new point of view for the Americans was that in 1945 when many Japanese would have been willing to surrender, the Americans were not interested in accepting it. Japanese trying to surrender were viewed with great suspicion due to ambushed and boobytraps. No telling how many surrendering Japanese were killed because the Allies doubted their intentions.

Originally posted by showboat1
In the early war quite a few surrendered. The garrisons on Wake and Guam, the Marines and soldiers in the Philippines surrendered by the tens of thousands. But then the stories of the Bataan Death March and similar incidents filtered back to the Americans. At this point they realized that their enemy was not interested in surrender, it was victory or death. The tragedy of this new point of view for the Americans was that in 1945 when many Japanese would have been willing to surrender, the Americans were not interested in accepting it. Japanese trying to surrender were viewed with great suspicion due to ambushed and boobytraps. No telling how many surrendering Japanese were killed because the Allies doubted their intentions.

There weren't very many to surrender on either Guam or Wake, but thousands were forced to surrender on april & May 1942 in the phillipines.

That was the last sizeable surrender of US soldiers to Japan in the war.

"The tragedy of this new point of view for the Americans was that in 1945 when many Japanese would have been willing to surrender, the Americans were not interested in accepting it. Japanese trying to surrender were viewed with great suspicion due to ambushed and boobytraps."

The unwillingness to take Japanese prisoner had less to do with treatment of Allied POWs than the persistant experience of Japanese duplicity in "surrendering." I've heard numerous marines and soldiers in interviews state essentially that taking prisoners was risky. Given the potentially lethal consequences for your GI or Marine, why risk your life?

But probably the worst victimizers of Japanese who wanted to surrender were other Japanese. Probably many more would have tried to surrender sans peer pressure, office executions, and the continuous propaganda bombardment about the ill-treatment that Japanese prisoners could expect.