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Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:18 pm
by Yogi the Great
Just for your information, Tiller Games has listed Tunisia '43 as a new release this morning.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:55 pm
by SuluSea
Tiller has some interesting titles but the dated art and from what I understand a DRM makes his games in this day and age a no buy for me.
I could live with the graphics if the title was up my alley (I play his guadalcanal)but not the DRM.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:56 pm
by V22 Osprey
Tunisia '43 looks like a very interesting title. Too bad he decided to release it after he left HPS with his new DRM.(Same with Modern War.)
EDIT: So tempted to give in....must resist....[X(]
EDIT2: SuluSea, I actually think the Mediterranean graphics are more attractive titles than other fronts, with East Front titles having the worst.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:13 pm
by Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
Just for your information, Tiller Games has listed Tunisia '43 as a new release this morning.
I've purchased a couple of the Tiller "Campaign Series" to mine OOB data from. I look at the situations and find the company/battalion scale very interesting. However, I simply can't play them because the graphics are so wretched. Specifically, I'm referring to the "3D-Normal" view where players actually have to plan and plot their moves. While many folks who play the games appear to have similar concerns, there's apparently no plan to upgrade this ancient aspect of the core design. And my criticisms of the graphics are not about eye-candy. Rather, the 3-D view is just ridiculously hard on my eyes. It also leads me to make mistakes that I don't believe that I'd make if Tiller would simply drop the 3-D nonsense and adopt additional, "zoomed-in" 2-D views:
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:25 pm
by Knavery
ORIGINAL: SuluSea
Tiller has some interesting titles but the dated art and from what I understand a DRM makes his games in this day and age a no buy for me.
I could live with the graphics if the title was up my alley (I play his guadalcanal)but not the DRM.
Yeah there have been a lot of folks talking about the DRM of Tiller games at Wargamer. To be honest, I don't understand their decision to use DRM. It's not like the game is Call of Duty Black Ops or anything. These games cater to a very small market of mature and intelligent people who would not cheat a company out of the money they deserve by pirating a game. That's just not going to happen in this sub-culture. And if it does, it'd be very rare.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:45 pm
by ilovestrategy
ORIGINAL: Knavery
That's just not going to happen in this sub-culture. And if it does, it'd be very rare.
I never really thought of that. We are a sub culture aren't we?
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:54 pm
by vonRocko
I have played some of his games in the distant past, and I would like to play them again, but just 3 seconds of looking at those horrible graphics makes my head spin! Someone needs to tell them to quit being so cheap and put some profits into making them look better. I don't need animations or anything like that, just more clarity. Their games look 20 years old.[:(]
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:01 pm
by Perturabo
ORIGINAL: Knavery
ORIGINAL: SuluSea
Tiller has some interesting titles but the dated art and from what I understand a DRM makes his games in this day and age a no buy for me.
I could live with the graphics if the title was up my alley (I play his guadalcanal)but not the DRM.
Yeah there have been a lot of folks talking about the DRM of Tiller games at Wargamer. To be honest, I don't understand their decision to use DRM. It's not like the game is Call of Duty Black Ops or anything. These games cater to a very small market of mature and intelligent people who would not cheat a company out of the money they deserve by pirating a game. That's just not going to happen in this sub-culture. And if it does, it'd be very rare.
Wargaming companies that go for DRM base it on high amount of downloads from torrent sites. What they don't understand is that most of these downloads are from countries outside of their chosen market and that adding DRM to prevent them is pretty counter-productive.
Basically, situation looks like this - value of work, including developer's work is different in different countries. Western developers tend to price themselves out of many markets, so people there find different sources of games. No amount of DRM is going to make them buy these games, because buying them at the prices that they are offered would be stupid and dangerous to their well-being.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:02 pm
by Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: vonRocko
I have played some of his games in the distant past, and I would like to play them again, but just 3 seconds of looking at those horrible graphics makes my head spin! Someone needs to tell them to quit being so cheap and put some profits into making them look better. I don't need animations or anything like that, just more clarity. Their games look 20 years old.[:(]
Believe it or not, a lot of people love these games, so much so, that they've been willing to mod the art for the 2-D maps, counters and so on:
http://www.hist-sdc.com/MapMod/index.htm
http://volcanomods.com/index.php?option ... e&Itemid=1
However, that's just for the 2-D maps. When you zoom-in to plot an attack or move, you still have to use the butt-ugly and difficult to interpret 3-D view. Last year, HPS published Midway for Tiller. The graphics didn't even appear to have been done by a professional artist. They were that bad. I still supported the game, however, because it played so well. Once more, my gripe isn't about eye-candy. It's about the abominable, nearly unusable GUI that's foisted off on folks who buy games that use Tiller's 3-D view.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:16 pm
by vonRocko
ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
Believe it or not, a lot of people love these games,
I believe that. I like the gameplay also. It's just my aging eyes need a better look. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:23 pm
by Perturabo
I kinda liked graphics in his Battleground Ardennes.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:11 pm
by eastwindrain
As a 62 year old with very good eyesight thanks to my optician I really enjoy the 2D and 3D veiws, so guys no more moaning please don't be so bloody vain.
As the saying goes you'll suit glasses but remember you have a choice with contact lenses or laser surgery also available.
IF YOU CANNOT READ THIS YOU MAY REQUIRE A EYE TEST.
I also enjoy Gary Grisby's WitP/AE which has very small counters, again absolutly no problem whatsoever.
So again stop this needless attack on Mr John Tiller and HPPSIMS.
Also I'm interested to know what game similiar to these has better 3D graphics.
With 60 to 70 games released and more in the pipeline someone seem's to have correct the formula.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:43 pm
by Waffenamt
No eye test required here. I don't see any "needless attacks" but I do see many valid opinions [:)]. Each camapign series seems more like 1 game with a load of scenario packs marketed as separate games. I bought many Panzer Campaign scenrios back in the 90s and early 2ks but found them all bit too much like the one before after a while. The template used became all too apparent, and th clickfest got tiresome with some of the larger battles. The graphics were just OK then, but I find them inexcusable now, especially when I gotten hooked on other games available here with similar scales, but much better graphics and a lot more effort going into each release. I won't mention which particular series I'm referring to, but it's on this site and there's just no going back for me!
Regards
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:02 am
by eastwindrain
Again which game are you hooked on which is similar and IYO has much better graphics.
Anyhow I'm not buying products here unless the games available contain John Tiller or Gary Grisbys DNA.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:21 am
by ilovestrategy
I just realized I've been so deep into the Pacific War I'm not even sure what happened in the real Tunisia in 43. Would anyone happen to have a link? The real deal, not the game.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:34 am
by eastwindrain
ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
I just realized I've been so deep into the Pacific War I'm not even sure what happened in the real Tunisia in 43. Would anyone happen to have a link? The real deal, not the game.
Well your search engine will help you achive your aims, I've been to Tunisia a number of times mainly around the ruins of Carthage but the local markets and shops are something else !!!.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:03 am
by sterckxe
ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
I just realized I've been so deep into the Pacific War I'm not even sure what happened in the real Tunisia in 43. Would anyone happen to have a link? The real deal, not the game.
Summary :
1) Monty was incredibly slow at chasing the retreating Axis after Alamein
2) Rommel gave the green US troops a bloody nose at Kasserine
3) Hitler poured in lots of troops - too little and too late
4) US from the West, UK/Anzacs from the East closed in and made them all PoW's
Greetz,
Eddy Sterckx
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:43 am
by hgilmer3
ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
Just for your information, Tiller Games has listed Tunisia '43 as a new release this morning.
I've purchased a couple of the Tiller "Campaign Series" to mine OOB data from. I look at the situations and find the company/battalion scale very interesting. However, I simply can't play them because the graphics are so wretched. Specifically, I'm referring to the "3D-Normal" view where players actually have to plan and plot their moves. While many folks who play the games appear to have similar concerns, there's apparently no plan to upgrade this ancient aspect of the core design. And my criticisms of the graphics are not about eye-candy. Rather, the 3-D view is just ridiculously hard on my eyes. It also leads me to make mistakes that I don't believe that I'd make if Tiller would simply drop the 3-D nonsense and adopt additional, "zoomed-in" 2-D views:
Those screen shots are exactly why I have never bought one of his titles. I'm sure they are good games and I know war games typically have lesser graphics than other mainstream titles. I live with those limitations, but these graphics are on par with early to mid 90s. You can do "wargame" graphics and yet still have them look better than that. WiTE is a perfect example of not flashy graphics, but still a 1000 times better than these titles.
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:14 pm
by wodin
Not sure what the fuss is about with regards to the graphics...I really like his 2D Squad battles graphics but hate the 3D....still in this sort of game the graphics are of no consequence...from the style of play to the scale it is nothing to do with graphics at all....it's about gameplay....FPS=graphics, Race games= graphics, Flight sims=graphics (though I'm loving FreeFalcon)....turn based operational wargames =great graphics not needed....
I play Dwarf Fortress with a graphic mod...still very basic but the gameplay is immense....I could easly play a spreadsheet style wargame as long as it drags you in and feeds your imagination with words...plus alot of options and things to do I'd be very happy....
RE: Tunisia '43
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:29 pm
by SlickWilhelm
I don't mind the 1990's graphics all that much(although I agree that it could use some improvement), it's the lack of resolution options that trouble me. I loaded up a recent demo of a Tiller game and the thing plays on about a fifth of my screen when in 2D normal mode.
The native resolution of my monitor is 1900x1200, so I don't want to reduce the resolution and suffer the loss of clarity. I understand that this game engine is many years old, of course. It's just a pity that he hasn't the time or inclination to update the engine to use multiple resolutions. It could be that the game engine can't do it, however, whether or not he would like to make that change.