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There is a surfeit of information about what the Axis can/should do on turn 1. Many, many threads.

However, I cannot find much at all about what the Soviets should be doing on turn 1. I've read through quite a bit, and there are a few threads out there talking about some details, but very little in the form of "Here is the Idiots Guide to what to do..."

Have any of the experienced Soviet players come up with anything? Nothing super detailed, but even just a general idea of how to start re-organizing the Red Army? I would MUCH rather see a basic, but complete guide rather than a lot of detail about very particular issues.

Example: I've read some threads arguing the merits of building one type of construction unit versus another - but they don't say much of anything about why you should be building construction units to begin with! Or how many! Or where. Or where building them fits into the priority queue.

Some specific questions:

1. I've heard that people often stick the Red Air Force into reserve. OK, but what do you do with the airbases then, that are now empty? Just disband them? Move them somewhere?

2. Can someone give me a basic rundown on the Soviet command structure? Corps - Armies - Front - Military Districts? How do they all fit together? What is the relationship between a Front and a MD in the game? The Germans are so much simpler!

I am pretty comfortable with the futile effort to throw crappy units in front of the Germans. I've been playing wargames long enough to figure out that part. But organizing the Red Army...that seems a lot harder. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

You're aware of the How to organize the Red Army thread?

It's difficult to give detailed pointers for the Soviet turn in terms of where you should place your units, as that depends on the German opening moves. I'd suggest reading a few Soviet side AAR's to get an idea of what you can do to deal with various kinds of German opening moves.

This is what I do, it might not work for you:


TURN ONE:
1. Set all air groups to manual upgrade.
2. Send all air groups to National Reserve.
3. Set all units Refit/Reserve status to "0".
4. Set all Corps and Air HQ units to Support Level "0".
5. Set all Army HQ units that are assigned to STAVKA to Support Level "0".
6. Set all inactive Front HQ units to Support Level "0". (Urals, Volga, Transcauc, North Cauc, Orel, Kharkov)
7. Set active Front HQ units to Support Level "5". (Odessa, Kiev, Western, Leningrad, Northwestern)
8. Move airbases and air HQ to the rear.
9. Evacuate the Kurland peninsula using ports if possible (Liepaja and Ventspils).
10. Move armor and anti-tank units toward three rear staging areas (primary force south of Moscow, secondary force southeast of Kiev, tertiary force behind the Pola river line).
11. Move airborne units toward rear staging area (Moscow area, to help build fortifications).
12. Move NKVD units toward Finnish border northeast of Leningrad.
13. Move combat units to existing fortifications - Leningrad, Sevastopol, Odessa, Kiev, Kerch.
14. Move combat units to build new fortifications – Moscow area.
15. Disband Fortified Regions that are not building fortifications and are threatened.
16. Move all routed units to safety.
17. Establish front line.
18. Rail move reinforcements to front.
TURN TWO:
1. Set all air groups to manual upgrade
2. Send all air groups to National Reserve.
3. Continue to move airbases and air HQ to rear.
4. Rail out factories - (Mogilev).
5. Continue to move armor to rear.
6. Set some formations on Refit.
TURN THREE:
1. Disband Corps HQ units if Admin points allow.
2. Move extra SAD air base units to rear for eventual disbandment.
3. Reassign combat units to Armies.
4. Move VVS bases and HQ toward front.
5. Check Support Unit assignments.
6. Increase Moscow Front Support level to “3” when Front activates

Yes, that is a pretty helpful thread. But a lot of the things to do say WHAT to do, but kind of skip over why you are doing it.

Like removing SU from HQ and sending them to Stavka, as an example. Or what to do with all those empty airbases, and why are we putting the Red Air Force into the Reserve again?

It's like threads like that are addressed to people who already know what they are trying to do, but aren't sure how to do it - I am curious as to what it is you are trying to do to begin with!

Another example - disbanding Corp HQs. OK - why? I get that you want to do it, and there is some debate as to when to do it, but...why? And how much? Should I be doing anything with all the Corps that are up in or near contact? What happens to the divisions attached to them? Or are you just talking about rear area Corp HQs?

That thread kind of feels like I walked into a conversation that was already half over.

Thanks carnifax, that is very useful. Gives me something to play with anyway. Appreciated.

for me concerning corps HQ
each one will bring you from 3 to 7000 men
his units will be commanded by the army
the leader will go to the pool

You should counterattack relentlessly.  Try to destroy AGC by turn 5.  Let your routed forces in the Pripyat marshes rally, and then attack the Germans in their flanks!

Like removing SU from HQ and sending them to Stavka, as an example. Or what to do with all those empty airbases, and why are we putting the Red Air Force into the Reserve again?

You're moving support units to STAVKA to redistribute them, it's the easiest way to do so and doesn't cost AP's.

You're moving the VVS to the national reserve because that's the only way you can transfer air groups, and the initial deployments are at best inadequate, not to mention that many squadrons took a beating and need some rest.

People disband corps HQ's for the reasons cpt flam mentioned. I only disband empty ones, mostly some mechanized corps HQ's. They disband automatically later on, so disbanding all of them is what I would call a waste of AP's. I disband empty corps HQ's because it would in many cases cost me AP's to attach units to them, so I might as well disband them for the cost of 1 AP.

Personally, I never send all air units to reserve. FBs with morale and or experience under 50 go to reserve. Tac and LBs with morale under 50 and experience under 45 go to reserve. Anything else with really bad morale goes to reserve too, but I tolerate fairly bad stats for frontline transport and recce units. It's a system whose parameters I plucked from thin air (apart from the fact that bombers generally have lower experience at start), but so far it's worked ok.

Clearly, the benefit of this varies according to how the LW has creamed your airfields, or not. The potential advantage is that with recce from T1 you can keep tabs on any build ups and prepare for them. Fighters near the front will reduce enemy interdiction and even give enemy bombers a few nasty surprises. You even get to interdict the inevitable enemy pincers and in spite of heavy losses, they do hit home now and again, disrupting the best laid plans. Worth the losses in my view. Expect your first Guards bomber unit on T1 or 2.

Not sure of the benefits to manual upgrade, unless you fear a lot of downgrades?

It's time consuming, but I don't want to leave all my HQs without support for even a week. setting level '0' is a nice trick to get free transfers out of threatened HQs but if you have the time, micro manage. I like mixed support wherever I can spare the APs and I start building new SUs at the earliest opportunity for critical HQs. Likewise, I start sacking the loser generals, one or two a turn.

With APs so scarce, I wouldn't use them disbanding fortified zones, personally.

ORIGINAL: Berkut

Yes, that is a pretty helpful thread. But a lot of the things to do say WHAT to do, but kind of skip over why you are doing it.

Like removing SU from HQ and sending them to Stavka, as an example. Or what to do with all those empty airbases, and why are we putting the Red Air Force into the Reserve again?

It's like threads like that are addressed to people who already know what they are trying to do, but aren't sure how to do it - I am curious as to what it is you are trying to do to begin with!

Another example - disbanding Corp HQs. OK - why? I get that you want to do it, and there is some debate as to when to do it, but...why? And how much? Should I be doing anything with all the Corps that are up in or near contact? What happens to the divisions attached to them? Or are you just talking about rear area Corp HQs?

That thread kind of feels like I walked into a conversation that was already half over.

The computer will eventually disband corps HQs; disbanding them manually frees up the manpower earlier.

Units under control of a corps HQ will have their new command as the HQ that was next up the chain, which will be either an army HQ, front HQ, military district, or Stavka.

Construction units help with increasing fort levels and rail repair.

Read the manual; it may take multiple days but will be worth the effort!

Sending air units to National Reserve gives them a morale bonus. This is why I send every single SU air group there. It's not like I'm going to need any airpower for the first few turns anyway.

I set the air groups to manual upgrade because I like to micromanage that aspect of the game.

I disband most SAD bases and all Corps HQ because I want the manpower and devices back in the pool and also I want to be in control of when the Corps HQ disappears. I don't want to leave a bunch of units out of range because the Army HQ is too far away at the moment the Corp HQ decides to go bye bye.

I move all my SU to STAVKA because it's easier to manually distribute the SUs downwards later and lock all the HQs down than depend on the auto-allocation.

It's my belief that no matter what you do with the SUs and air groups for the first couple of turns, it won't make a single hex of difference. By turn three or four everything is in place and I've wasted a lot less time than finagling everything piecemeal.

Thanks for all the pointers everyone.

http://witewiki.com/index.php/Soviet_Ground_Tactics

http://witewiki.com/index.php/Defensive_Techniques

http://witewiki.com/index.php/Soviet_Ai ... y_Strategy

Disband the 9th Mech. Cheaper in APs then transferring Rokossovsky.

Get Konev out of his MD backwater when you can.

Make sure your VVS bases have IL4/TB3 airgroups set on night missions. They will supply your partisans

Disband the 9th Mech. Cheaper in APs then transferring Rokossovsky.

You don't pay AP's for the replacement taking control of the HQ you moved a leader from, so it doesn't matter if a leader is commanding something or not when you transfer him.

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Disband the 9th Mech. Cheaper in APs then transferring Rokossovsky.

You don't pay AP's for the replacement taking control of the HQ you moved a leader from, so it doesn't matter if a leader is commanding something or not when you transfer him.

I thought there was a dismissal cost? Oh well.....[;)]

Time to RTM again.

ORIGINAL: Berkut

There is a surfeit of information about what the Axis can/should do on turn 1. Many, many threads.

However, I cannot find much at all about what the Soviets should be doing on turn 1. I've read through quite a bit, and there are a few threads out there talking about some details, but very little in the form of "Here is the Idiots Guide to what to do..."

Have any of the experienced Soviet players come up with anything? Nothing super detailed, but even just a general idea of how to start re-organizing the Red Army? I would MUCH rather see a basic, but complete guide rather than a lot of detail about very particular issues.

Example: I've read some threads arguing the merits of building one type of construction unit versus another - but they don't say much of anything about why you should be building construction units to begin with! Or how many! Or where. Or where building them fits into the priority queue.

Some specific questions:

1. I've heard that people often stick the Red Air Force into reserve. OK, but what do you do with the airbases then, that are now empty? Just disband them? Move them somewhere?

2. Can someone give me a basic rundown on the Soviet command structure? Corps - Armies - Front - Military Districts? How do they all fit together? What is the relationship between a Front and a MD in the game? The Germans are so much simpler!

I am pretty comfortable with the futile effort to throw crappy units in front of the Germans. I've been playing wargames long enough to figure out that part. But organizing the Red Army...that seems a lot harder. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Getting back to some of the original questions.
Just bear in mind that I'm not exactly an experienced player, so this is just what I've picked up along the way.

The reason for building construction-units is to help the divisions in the army to dig-in.
The basic Sov Army HQ (for me, at least) contains 4 How Regiments, a Sapper Regiment and 2-3 RR brigades.
Meaning that every single army that has combat-units attached gets the above before I start thinking about adding anything else.
It keeps the whole reorganizing a little more manageable if you have a 'standard' army to build on.

The command structure is actually simpler than it might look at first glance.
Corps -> Army -> Front/MD -> STAVKA.
Note that MDs and Fronts function in the same way. The only difference is that MDs are static, and only half the size (36 CPs compared to 72 for Armies).
As for the Corps, I disband everyone except the mech HQs.
It's not so much a question of whether it's better to have the manpower or not, I just can't get organized with 60+ HQs getting displaced all over the frontline.
Only reason I keep the Mech ones is that anything with wheels/tracks gets pulled back to Leningrad/Moscow/Smolensk/Kharkov, where they either get set to static to gain APs, or get organized into a mobile reserve.
Which means that the few HQs doesn't clutter the front, and hence they keep their jobs a little longer.

What I've failed to do in the two CGs I'm currently in, is take a quick look at the reinforcement-schedule (Hotkey i) and make a note as to where and when the Army and Front HQs appear.
Planning to do so in the future, since it'll help getting things organized without having to move units to and fro.

As to the whole aircraft thingie....(note the professional expression ;o))
I'm a little clueless to be honest. I've also read that sending the entire VVS back to the reserve is the 'optimal' thing to do, but I just can't bear leaving the skies completely denuded.
So what I do is first use the 'Air commitment' buttons to get things a little more organized, and then start with the high XP units when upgrading to new models. Usually means that by the time the mud hits, my fighters are all flying post-1920 aircraft.
No idea whether this is good or bad play, but I'm honestly more concerned with having fun than optimal play. [:)]

The SU trick of setting anything but STAVKA to 0, and having STAVKA set at 9 is a good idea, though.
Clears out all of the chaff from the lower HQs without using APs.
Some people then take STAVKA on a railroad tour of the Russian countryside, and manually attach SUs to Armies in order to save APs.
Too much nitpicking for my taste to be honest. I'd rather attach from STAVKA to the nearer HQs (Western, Reserve and Bryansk Fronts), and then spend APs getting the SUs to the rest of the Armies.
All a matter of how much micro-management you're willing to cope with I guess.

Final disclaimer: I'm getting creamed in both my CGs, so take the above advice with some caution. [:D]
And also, despite all the threads on opening moves and optimal play, remember the idea is to have fun doing it.

I send all my aircraft to the reserve, but as soon as turn 3 I start getting them back onto the battlefield.  Sending them away doesn't mean they have to be gone for a long time.
 
In literal terms I believe all the monoplanes are post 1920, and perhaps even the biplanes are. [:D]

ORIGINAL: randallw

In literal terms I believe all the monoplanes are post 1920, and perhaps even the biplanes are. [:D]

So I'm a better player than typist. [:D]

I thought there was a dismissal cost? Oh well.....

Yup, but that's for the assigned leader, so if you want to assign Rokossovsky to replace Some Guy, you pay a dismissal cost for Some Guy, but nothing extra for Rokossovsky if he's still in command.